Discussion OF THE TOPIC is "hijack" ?

Here we go, someone with only personal interest lobbies AGAINST critical discussion of the thread subject to maximize their personal interest. :rolleyes:

I'd argue it is you that has hijacked this ENTIRE FORUM !

D you give lessons in creative writing? You really should. Especially fiction.

So long as it's what eaglefly knows is best for everyone.




What emotion? Would it please you if I were frothing at the mouth while typing out a reply? You're so gonna be disappointed.

I'd love to continue a coherent discussion with you on the topic, but it seems we have run dry as your only reply now is............well, this. :cool:

I'm sure some others will have something of interest to say (even if they disagree with me), so I'll check back later. Meanwhile...........carry on with whatever.

We don't need to ride the stall into the ground before we approve changes at envoy. AAG will quickly realize that this bonus will attract a few and keep a few, but will not effectively stop attrition. QOL improvements and not violating the contract would be a more effective tool for retention. At the same time, it would be stupid to leave free money on the table, when you know AAG will need further improvements to envoy shortly thereafter. IMO the MEC did a good thing for FO's. We have not lost leverage for taking money on the table. Don't get it twisted beaglefly!

This is true. Cash in the pocket doesn't buy back days off or make a commute easier.

This is soley a recruiting tool not a retention tool. Endeavor's is more of a rentention payment as well as recruiting tool because it might make CA's think twice before hopping to Allegiant or some other ULCC/LCC allowing them to keep more pilots on property and grow the airline.

With that said it IS something. They will come back to the table when it doesn't amount to what the thought it would.

It is YOU that has twisted ME. I've not said ANYWHERE that it doesn't have some benefit, although I personally believe it is a mistake and indicative of the continued failures of the past. I've simply explored the potential risks and consequences of doing this and as such a suggestion for each individual pilot at Envoy or elsewhere to think more outside the box to determine if this is really something that will alter their future decision-making. For some it may, others not.

In the interim, it has the most potential benefit to the company as it gives them a chance of avoiding a Summer meltdown in their staffing/flying and kicking the can longer. The longer they avoid a crisis, the less likelihood of having to face the pilots and offer true value. If I were them, a Fall meltdown is better then a Summer one when travel is far more active and so I would be thankful if I were Envoy management for this gift from the MEC to assist their interests.

Of course, I'm sure they knew exactly what the MEC would do when asked and thus, the beat goes on. Has that beat changed its tempo in the last 20 years there ?

Nope. It's just a new group of dancers now and thus they too will have to dance to an old tune that always ends on the same note. Enjoy !

How is it possible to cherry pick the people on the seniority list who will be given bonuses. If FOs get a bonus the Captains should also. Am I missing something here?

But likely at a MUCH more opportune time for them. The longer they can string this out, the stronger the other WO's get and thus the less (if anything) they'll have to offer Envoy pilots in the future when they may have to. IMO, it would have been in Envoy pilot's best interests to not assist them with anything while they conduct themselves toward this pilot group as they have been and control the time line to the inevitable crisis. Now, it's just more likely that when that crisis does occur, other factors like completion of AAG merger synergies like AA SLI, hub/domicile moves and fleet shifting will allow the real long-term regional plan to be unveiled and Envoy may be instantly over-staffed then.

In other words, I think it likely the Envoy pilots by virtue of once again being played will have ended up getting 25 cents on the dollar in return, instead of much more value by moving the crisis time line forward...............well, actually only half get the 25 cents, the rest bupkus. :cool:

No you are not. It's really a card trick. IMO, this has NOTHING to do about rewarding pilots per se or philosophy shift in labor relations. It is simply a Band-Aid proposed and requested to kick the can to a further point where it will require less or possibly nothing at all in the true change dept. for the pilot group as a whole. In the Fall or later, a number of scenarios including carrier consolidation (or schedule changes with aircraft transfer or parking) could instantly put Envoy hundreds of pilots fat even with attrition and thus no need to talk about anything and when CBA modifications might be under a different atmosphere. One party is still controlling another and that's how it's always been, the only difference now is that the many there have not or are not aware of the past and so they repeat it.

In fact, just say........late last year, many were jumping up and down claiming just how AAG/Envoy was living up to their promises, "things are different this time" and optimism abounded. Then, when that didn't occur (like so many times in the past), they sank into depression in the last month or two crying to the heavens. Now, the SAME hand is played that has been played so many times and what happens ?

Boom !.........another meteoric emotional rebound of irrational exuberance. Up, down, up, down, many Envoy pilots go like a yo-yo, completely oblivious to what is happening and why. What you're seeing is simply a re-run, nothing more, nothing less, but with each climb of the yo-yo, they forget the past and everything and think it is some final positive change and they've once again (for the umpteenth time) have "turned the corner". It truly is quite a schizophrenic existence and IMO, that is why there is so much of what you see from some of them on this forum. It eventually does screw with the mind of some who get to a point they cannot see reality any longer who live in (and even embrace Stockholm style) the warped relationship. IMO, this is what guys like Glass specialize in, that being controlling the minds of your adversary, much like the philosophies of Sun-Tzu.