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word302 12-27-2016 01:47 PM

Isn't it a little bit of a red flag that they are using per diem and the possibility of JRM pay to calculate the "advertised" earning potential.

Icaruss 12-27-2016 01:58 PM

How close to class date do you get a class confirmation or email with class information?

moon 12-27-2016 02:20 PM


Originally Posted by Smutter (Post 2270298)
824 is a pretty good example

Yeah of metering too what the contract allows, which is what people are using flow dates for anyway. I would love to see the %s honored, and I think they should. But it's incorrect to think they can go below those hard numbers without being in violation of the contract.

Smutter 12-27-2016 04:44 PM


Originally Posted by moon (Post 2270326)
Yeah of metering too what the contract allows, which is what people are using flow dates for anyway. I would love to see the %s honored, and I think they should. But it's incorrect to think they can go below those hard numbers without being in violation of the contract.

Again, they violated the flow once and they will do it again. They violate crap everyday, they could care less what's in the contract and you know it. They may or may not lose the grievance in 4 years for violating it butt in the short term it benefits them and that's all that matters

moon 12-27-2016 06:00 PM


Originally Posted by Smutter (Post 2270381)
Again, they violated the flow once and they will do it again. They violate crap everyday, they could care less what's in the contract and you know it. They may or may not lose the grievance in 4 years for violating it butt in the short term it benefits them and that's all that matters

True and they could do it again, I'm just stating it's not simple to do since it is a violation. However, It is a new company and I look at piedmont who are so short they are paying 300% premium coverage and are still flowing their numbers, under the new American it seems like they have honored the flow as written. We won't get the 40 a month some people predict, but I don't think they will go below the metering numbers.

ORDinary 12-27-2016 06:00 PM


Originally Posted by moon (Post 2270087)
I might not be a new hire but I know they can't just "adjust" the flow as needed. Theyd be in violation of the contract and that's not as simple as a adjustment of the flow.

They are in violation of the contract every day without consequence. They even win grievances by admitting to arbitrators that they are in violation but by claiming "operational necessity," an argument that would no doubt work perfectly if they had to violate flow for staffing reasons.

ORDinary 12-27-2016 06:04 PM


Originally Posted by cr700 (Post 2270091)
Moon is correct. The flow is contractual. If Envoy flowed a single person less than what is outlined in the contract, they would be in violation of said contract.

That said, this isn't even an issue. There won't be any issues with honoring the contract and flowing at the very least, the minimum numbers stated there.

Then why do you guys violate it so much? And what would be the consequences of violating? A 3+ year long grievance process that you guys would win by arguing operational necessity.

Hey, should we still plan on 40/mo starting in January like you promised? Or was that another false claim?

moon 12-27-2016 06:08 PM


Originally Posted by ORDinary (Post 2270417)
They are in violation of the contract every day without consequence. They even win grievances by admitting to arbitrators that they are in violation but by claiming "operational necessity," an argument that would no doubt work perfectly if they had to violate flow for staffing reasons.

You are probably right those down in Irving would want to try it, but I think that is above their pay grade even, and as we hire 60+ a month there will be no operational necessity. We will be so flush with pilots they won't want us around, they want a lean pilot group. Why spend more than they have to.

ORDinary 12-27-2016 06:12 PM


Originally Posted by moon (Post 2270423)
You are probably right those down in Irving would want to try it, but I think that is above their pay grade even, and as we hire 60+ a month there will be no operational necessity. We will be so flush with pilots they won't want us around, they want a lean pilot group. Why spend more than they have to.

You don't know that. All they have to do is accept too much flying some time next year or the year after and staffing will be tight again. They are always angling for more, which is why they will always meter to the minimum, or worse. This "close to 330+" is ridiculous. Contract allows them to send only 285 or so. It would be shocking if they sent a single pilot more. To me it seems basically impossible.

402FreightDog 12-27-2016 07:15 PM

Uniforms
 
I read on Aero Crew News pilots must pay for half the uniform cost and all the cost of the leather jackets. Is this accurate?

When are they ordered, from what company and how are they paid for?

What does is the cost for the basic uniform requirements and the jacket?


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