The vast majority of PPs were hired at American Eagle Airlines, the largest regional in the world, and the only one doing AA's regional flying. We had an 18 year contract in place that was very competitive. We had 7 bases, and in 2010-2011 we were hiring like crazy. It was somewhat similar to how you talk about a 2016-hire in terms of this being a decent place to be. Enter BK and the USAir takeover and even in the face of (very real) threats to "Comair" us, we still said no to concessions. PSA comes along and stabs us in the back, and we suffer 5 base closures, a concessionary contract, airplanes going to PSA, and a whole bunch of stuff that saw a 3,300 strong pilot group whither down to around 1800 or so.

This is all around the time Pinnacle voted in one of the worst contracts imaginable. The world was a much different place, and we did what we could to make it through the rough times. But this industry is cyclical. We'll see if you're right about that 2016-hire come the next downturn. But something tells me they too will "demonstrate a willingness to accept the worst", if god forbid this industry even vaguely resembles what it did just 6 or 7 years ago.

 

You do realize the majority of our pilot group is millienals, maybe even yourself. The “millienals,” are 22 to 37 years old. I wouldn’t call them kids haha. Most of them have a set of kids themselves. The rest of you grandpas need to calm down. There’s probably less than 30 FOs at the airline actively avoiding captain bids. Just looking at all the reserve lists there’s only a few pilots per base/equipment who bid reserve on purpose. And who’s to say they only do it to avoid captain bids. They may just do it because they like the time off at home with their “kids” haha. For example there is only two fo’s in the MFE postion who purposely bid reserve...

 

Keep in mind that a very significant number of the people hired since 2016 are career changers. These are people that flew on the side and had other primary careers. They intentionally held out because pay and QOL at the regionals were terrible. If this industry reverts back to what it was these people will just get out.

 

This is on point. I am one of those..

 

I agree 100%, I fall into this catagory.

 

Give me a break. I am NOT an millennial and in fact have one of my own. There are many reasons people may choose to slow down the rate at which they upgrade.

1. Family. I certainly don't want to upgrade at a time when forced upgrades to LGA are on the table, or even Miami for that matter. I live on the west coast and losing another day a week with my family because I have to go to the other side of the country isn't something I want to do right now.

2. Pay. I had a successful career prior to this so the jump in pay isn't enough to make me want to give up QOL, sorry but it is the truth. I can survive just fine with the FO pay and my savings/investments. Now, I am not normal in this regards, but I am not the only one either.

3. Just not ready. Perhaps someone just doesn't feel ready to be a Captain at 1000 hours. This isn't me, but I imagine it could be a reason for some. Forcing someone into this position is wrong, plain and simple.

4. None of your damn business. Kinda of speaks for itself, but last time I checked this is a free country and if I don't want to seek a promotion, I shouldn't be forced into it. It shouldn't matter if you feel I am stupid or not, it is a choice that the person needs to make for themselves.

All I am trying to illustrate here is that there are reasons, legitimate reasons, why someone may not want to upgrade. Calling them spoiled, millennials or ignorant isn't the approach I would take.

Anyway, to each their own.

 

Hey I get it you don't want to commute cross country. But you likely got sold to Envoy on the idea of flying the shiny 175 and holding a line right away with a 17.5k signing bonus. Did you not look at what the rest of the airline group looked like?? If you haven't figured it out yet I'll let you in on a little secret. The company will make it more and more attractive for NHs to show up and they won't give a 💩 what happens to you. If you think the most abused pilot group is going to give two sh*ts about what happens to he most benefited pilot group then you are sadly mistaken. The "hardships" are laughable compared to what many endured. No one has sold you out. No one is picking on you. No one has asked you to do anything they haven't done before. You lived a dream of rapid seniority, direct to DFW based, and flying a shiny new jet while the rest suffered. Welcome to reality.

 

Let’s not make this about something tge really isn’t the complaint. I promise you that if you got an upgrade then went to the office and told them that you were not safe or ready to upgrade they’d listen. No corporation could afford the liability of putting someone in charge of a flight that did not feel safe being there. Can you imagine the headlines if there was an accident? Or the NTSB/FAA action? It’s a cop out. This whole thing is about people that don’t want to go to LGA, nothing more. Safety concerns are a red herring.

 

Hit the nail on the head right there.

I think it might actually be the majority, at least for NHs over about age 25.

If they've got you by the short hairs because all you know how to do is fly your perspective is going to be radically different from someone who came from typing emails very slowly 8 hours a day. This job isn't that great unless you absolutely love flying, and at a certain point for most people it stops being worth it.

 

This guy gets it........^. Also a senior fo bidding reserve probably lives in base and allows another junior commuter to get a commutable line that much sooner