Guarantee. That's bold. It took the company MONTHS to figure out if they were going to open up a 175 base in ORD. They were waiting for United.

I'm not so sure it's a good idea to "guarantee" aircraft will go to ORD if we get more. The company doesn't even know if or when we're getting more 175's, let alone where they would put them. Maybe UAL takes 175's from SkyWest, gives them to us and now we open a SFO base because that's where the flying is.

One thing I've learned in this industry, it's all very fickle.

 

Don't get overconfident in your degrees and military background. As long as someone has a bachelor's degree, that's a check in the box. Some majors do hold higher education (masters and doctorate) a couple of points higher, but it's certainly no guarantee for a job. Same goes with military. They like that we served, and maybe some that flew for military, but there are other factors that still go into their decision-making process. Many fantastic pilots at XJT flew in the military and many got the TBNT (thanks but no thanks) email from United from both the CPP and Aviate programs. Right now, the Aviate program is about a 45% pass rate. HORRIBLE, and demoralizing for our ExpressJet pilots.

 

I’m shocked the Aviate percent is as high as hey claim; I only know a few who got the invite. A few were new hires that failed either the MV and/or LOE. Certainly demoralizing to those of us who have a clean training record with plenty of community service. Now the bigger question for us rejects is will United invite us for OTS interviews or are we banned so to speak?

 

whats the off the street pass rate at UAL? If it’s within 10% of the Aviate program I see no real problem. What makes Xjet pilots anymore special then OTS? If you want a flow go to AA.

 

I haven't kept up in the last few years. But the lowest I ever heard was 70% OTS take rate.

 

That would be an apples to oranges comparison since those who got an OTS invite were pre-screened, met all of the requirements, and the company wanted to look at them specifically. Aviate seems to be more of a cattle call.

 

Yes. You probably will be assigned the 175. How much time do you have though? They will let you upgrade to the 145 as soon as you hit 1000 121.

As has been mentioned before, you could also demand the 145. Threaten to leave. It has been done successfully but you have to wonder how many times they will tolerate that.

 

just getting tired of all the complaining how much the CPP, Aviate or whatever program is a joke. There’s no pre-screening (as you agree) just the interview and Hogan. If the pass rate is 45% for the Aviate that’s not bad.

I had the luxury of talking with a part of the hiring team while at the TK. I suggest you talk to them too. Very interesting perspective on the different candidates (OTS/Aviate), level of prep or taking the process seriously.

 

"A clear path to United" is what is declared on United and other United Express regional websites. A clear path, it is not.

The CPP was a disaster. There were hopes that this Aviate program would exceed where the CPP failed. However, that is not the case. It is an updated version (new website, new interview process, better communication) of the CPP, but the acceptance rate is far from making it a "clear path to United."

If United wanted the Aviate program to be a far superior product than the CPP, they would have their success rate over 90%; at least initially. Get the word out that if you want to fly for United you'd have to fly for one of our UAX carriers first. A direct path to United should be through one of our UAX carriers. They could have done what they're doing now, cherry-pick who they want to invite to the interview. Interview the individuals and only give Thanks But No Thanks (TBNT) emails to a handful of individuals who United considered too great of a risk.

If United is so concerned about who flys their passengers, maybe they should be more involved in the pilot hiring process at the regional level. When you give a TBNT email to someone who has flown your passengers for 5, 10, 15, or even 30 years, and then the very next day the pilot gets on the PA and says, "Welcome aboard United Express flight....." It's a kick in the teeth and more UAX pilots will be lost to United's competitors (Southwest, Delta, American, JetBlue, Spirit, etc.). United wants to grow, but I fear that the low success rate of this program is going to make it much more difficult for United to find pilots in the near future.

I do like one aspect of the Aviate program. The pilot mentorship. Pilots who get the CJO from United (prior to the final review), are assigned a United pilot mentor. From my understanding, this pilot mentor calls the CJO pilot from time to time and asks questions on how the CJO pilot would handle an MX or customer service problem. Once answered, the United pilot mentor might say, "Good job, but have you thought about saying it like this,.... or adding this to the conversation to the passenger... etc." Great idea! I wish they would open this up to every UAX regional pilot who would be interested in receiving this valuable mentorship. <-- this helps bring the CJO pilot closer to United's core4 culture. Again, brilliant! I think that United should also force its regional partners to train its flight crew members on core4 as well.

One last point, I think the Hogan test shouldn't be used as a determination to one's employment. In this case, it should be left up to the United MEC. The United pilots know what type of personality they want in the seat next to them. They know who can and will be a good CRM and TEM partner in the skies. Unfortunately, the United CPOs' don't even have much of a say anymore. The United MEC should have much more involvement in the decision-making process on who is given a job as a pilot for United Airlines.

 

I’m not trying to step on toes, Ivan......but I think when a CPP/AVIATE candidate fails the process, and then leaves for another carrier........doesn’t bother UAL in the slightest. They clearly decided against them for a reason (fair or unfair, not for me to speak on). More senior and mid-level pilots leave, and are replaced with cheaper new hires. I 100% understand your frustration, and I know you care about the pilots you represent. Your comment that the CPP was a “disaster” has a LOT to do with perspective. I consider it the best thing that ever happened to me, professionally. I know it wasn’t “fair”, but that’s ALSO a matter of perspective.