Originally Posted by Treehorn (Post 2263297)

SKYW is up 7% today. That shows a lot about what xjt is/was doing to their earnings.

Originally Posted by N1234 (Post 2263320)

It does indeed. Stock price is a reflection of expected future earnings. So apparently the street thinks that SKYW will be more profitable following the fleet changes. You can infer that the business going away was not profitable.

Originally Posted by No Lies (Post 2263396)

Too bad the general public does not understand the amount of money that INC is pulling out of XJT to pay for IT, MX, HR....

Originally Posted by N1234 (Post 2263413)

Here we go again .....

I get it. It sucks for XJT but there is no conspiracy against XJT. It is pure business.

I don't think you give the financial analyst enough credit. They have a pretty good handle what is going on.

Originally Posted by Is offline (Post 2262983)

The branded flying lost millions, and how long has it been since a profit was made? 2003..2004?

Originally Posted by N1234 (Post 2263320)

It does indeed. Stock price is a reflection of expected future earnings. So apparently the street thinks that SKYW will be more profitable following the fleet changes. You can infer that the business going away was not profitable.

Originally Posted by Nevjets (Post 2263512)

The CAL CPA was profitable during the branded operation. It was profitable until Skywest. Then it became so unprofitable that even when branded was shuttered, xjt still lost money.

Originally Posted by Southern Fried (Post 2263428)

And you obviously don't know the details of what happened between Skywest/CAL and Expressjet since the spring of 2008. If you did you wouldn't have made your post. The info is on here but your obviously too proud of what you think you know to bother looking for it.

Don't bother asking. I have better things to do than try to school (again) another ignorant pilot on our history.

In case anyone is curious, I dgaf about the future of the company anymore. I'm out when they close the doors or I can't hold CA anymore. Time to move on to other pursuits. Expressjet used to be a great company. Now it is just a clone of Skywest/ASA.

Originally Posted by N1234 (Post 2263592)

True, I don't know all the details. And maybe they screwed up a perfectly good business.



But at this point it doesn't seem to make sense to continue it or turn things around. Why would you shut down an operation that yields a profit or could yield a profit? The only reason you would do that if you feel that your resources yield a higher profit somewhere else.



Again, it sucks and I feel for all of you. But it just doesn't make any sense to shut down XJT just out of spite or something.

Originally Posted by Nevjets (Post 2263512)

The CAL CPA was profitable during the branded operation. It was profitable until Skywest. Then it became so unprofitable that even when branded was shuttered, xjt still lost money.

Originally Posted by Is offline (Post 2263625)

I've got financial reports all the way back to 2005 and not one ever made a profit. The branded flying never even came close.

Originally Posted by No Lies (Post 2263636)

Does the reports that you have show Branded, Charter and the CO CPA separate? Can you please post the 2008 year financials here please. I would love to see what you have.

Originally Posted by Happyflyer (Post 2263652)

Anyone know if a CR7 ATL guy will be awarded DFW CR7 first, or will a CR2 DFW guy have base rights to be awarded CR7 DFW first? I think the CRJ7 DFW will open before any system wide flying reduction occurs.

Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy (Post 2263660)

It's awarded based on seniority. There's a preliminary bid out right now with vacancies for that position. Shouldn't be a problem to hold if you currently hold ATL CR7. There are no base rights.


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Originally Posted by Happyflyer (Post 2263664)

Thanks for the quick response.

If your DFW2 when when they close that category can you exercise system wide seniority to hold something without a vacancy or you you only be able to go where a vacancy exists?

Originally Posted by Is offline (Post 2263625)

I've got financial reports all the way back to 2005 and not one ever made a profit. The branded flying never even came close.

Originally Posted by Happyflyer (Post 2263664)

Thanks for the quick response.
If your DFW2 when when they close that category can you exercise system wide seniority to hold something without a vacancy or you you only be able to go where a vacancy exists?

Originally Posted by wmupilot85 (Post 2263706)

The way I read it, is that it's system wide. So say there isn't a vacancy, you displace the most junior pilot where your next bid is for. Then they go to where their bid preference is and so on.

Originally Posted by Nevjets (Post 2263703)

You've got the wrong company's financial reports then. Here is the 1qtr 10Q from 2007, the last quarter before branded began operations. Net income of around $10M.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...t10q033107.htm

And I never said branded made money. Only that once branded was shut down, the CAL CPA was unprofitable because of Skywest and so despite getting rid of branded, xjt was still losing money. Here is the first 10Q from after branded ceased operations. It shows a loss of about $11M.
https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/d...33109final.htm

That's a difference of $21M per quarter just from the CPA that Skywest negotiated.

Originally Posted by N1234 (Post 2263716)

more from the 2008 10K...



2008 Amended Continental CPA. Prior to July 1, 2008, Airlines was entitled to receive payment for each block hour that Continental scheduled it to fly pursuant to the terms of the Continental CPA. Payment was based on a formula designed to provide Airlines with a target operating margin of 10% before taking into account variations in certain costs and expenses that were generally within our control. We had exposure for most labor costs and some maintenance and general administrative expenses if actual costs were higher than those budgeted in our block hour rates. For the first six months of 2008, we recognized revenues using 2007 block hour rates, pursuant to our agreement with Continental reached in June 2008.





At such time, we also reached an agreement with Continental to amend the existing Continental CPA. The Amended Continental CPA, which became effective July 1, 2008, allows us to continue flying, at minimum, 205 aircraft for Continental for seven years while providing Continental the right after one year to reduce the number of aircraft to a minimum of 190 aircraft. (It should be noted going forward in our document, we will use the designation, “the Continental CPA,” for matters that remained same between the original CPA and the Amended Continental CPA; where matters differed between the original CPA and the Amended Continental CPA, they will be specifically identified to “the Amended Continental CPA.”)The Amended Continental CPA significantly reduces Continental’s governance rights under the original CPA, including easing change-of-control limitations on ExpressJet, reducing restrictions on our flying into Continental’s hub airports, and removing the most-favored-nation clause, allowing us the option to fly for other carriers and to consider other strategic alternatives. The Amended Continental CPA also removes Continental’s ability to terminate the agreement without cause.





The Amended Continental CPA provides payments to us at a pre-determined rate based on block hours flown and reimburses us for various pass-through expenses including passenger liability insurance, hull insurance, war risk insurance, landing fees and substantially all regional jet engine expenses under current long-term third-party contracts with no margin or mark-up. Under the Amended Continental CPA, Continental is responsible for the cost of providing fuel for all flights and for paying aircraft rent for all aircraft covered by the Amended Continental CPA and, therefore, these items are not included in our statements of operations for the three month period ended September 30, 2008 and thereafter. The fixed block hour rates are considerably lower than the rates under the original agreement and will be subject to annual escalations tied to a consumer price index (capped at 3.5%) at each anniversary date, July 1. During 2008, we returned as part of the Amended Continental CPA negotiations, 30 aircraft, with Continental bearing the expense related to the aircraft following their return. We will continue to operate at least 205 aircraft through July 1, 2009. Beginning on July 1, 2009, Continental can remove up to 15 aircraft making the new minimum aircraft requirement under the agreement 190. Therefore, we will continue to focus on aggressively managing costs in response to the Amended Continental CPA and the economic difficulties facing the entire airline industry.





We also entered into a settlement agreement with Continental to release the parties’ claims at the time of the agreement to amend the then existing capacity purchase agreement, relating to certain identified payments under such capacity purchase agreement, including disputes previously disclosed as possible matters for arbitration.





In September 2008, we agreed with Continental on the first amendment to the Amended Continental CPA in order to compensate us for our fixed costs, considered in the calculation of the pre-determined block hour rates, that cannot be reduced as a result of the unanticipated reduction in aircraft utilization by Continental’s scheduling. We also agreed that if Continental, beginning in year two, increases its aircraft utilization above a predetermined threshold, then it may receive discounts on the agreed, pre-determined block hour rates. For the last six months of 2008, we recognized an additional $3.4 million in contract revenues as compensation for shortfalls in aircraft utilization.





In December 2008, we agreed with Continental on the first second amendment to the Amended Continental CPA in order to clarify certain issues related to our revenue recognition, the fuel efficiency program in place in connection with the Amended Continental CPA and depreciation related to the aircraft we operate for Continental and excess inventory related thereto.





Prior Years’ Settlement of the Continental CPA. Airlines was entitled to receive payment for each block hour that Continental scheduled it to fly. Payment was based on a formula designed to provide Airlines with a target operating margin before taking into account variations in certain costs and expenses that were generally within our control. We had exposure for most labor costs and some maintenance and general administrative expenses if actual costs were higher than those budgeted in our block hour rates. Prior years’ payment methodologies are described in the following paragraphs.





2005-2007. As part of the 2005 rate negotiations, we agreed to cap Airlines’ prevailing margin at 10.0% in an attempt to ensure the long-term stability of the Continental CPA. Airlines also began including previously unreconciled costs, as discussed above, within the margin band, although it was not reimbursed if these costs are higher and cause its prevailing margin to fall below the 8.5% margin floor. Airlines remained entitled to receive incentive payments from Continental if its rate of controllable cancellations was lower than its historical benchmark, but was no longer required to pay Continental a penalty for controllable cancellations unless the rate rises above 0.5%. Airlines continued to receive a small per-passenger fee and incentive payments for certain on-time departure and baggage handling performance.









I wasn't at the negotiation table back then but this reads like a nice cost plus set-up while XJT was a Continental subsidiary that got turned into an independent CPA model. It isn't difficult to show a profit with a cost plus approach.



And I doubt SKYW agreed to lower rates out of the goodness of their hearts. It seems to me that Continental was pushing lower rates pretty aggressively. I guess the better option would have been to walk away from te deal back then...

Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy (Post 2263675)

I'm not sure exactly without looking at the contract. However, on the premium art award, there's one pilot that was displaced from DFW to DTW. There are no vacancies shown for DTW on the position notice. This makes it appear that it would be up to company needs. So if you're not senior enough to hold DFW CR7, you'd be moved to the next location that they needed you that is on your bid list.


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Originally Posted by dfwflyboy (Post 2264695)

DFW 700 will go more senior. It used to be junior upgrade. Those junior CAs will go back to FO. now ASA is parking all the 200s by 2017. The airline will shrink to 900 total pilots. Possible furlough unless attrition can't beat the date of parking 46 planes. No more upgrades. Basically they are being Comaired. Bad, bad days at ASA

Originally Posted by Dingus (Post 2265122)

I haven't seen the exact numbers on this. Does anyone know?

1. How any CRJ2s are coming offline?
2. Where are they going?
3. A schedule of how many and when are coming off?

Originally Posted by Hou757 (Post 2265140)

For those worrying about furloughs (which I understand) take a look at how many planes we have parked on the ERJ side and have not had to furlough one pilot. With attrition I would assume no furloughs on the ASA side.

Originally Posted by No Lies (Post 2265157)

Ok. Lets look at the numbers of what the ERJ side parked and compare. A little bit of difference between 27 planes getting parked in a year compared to the 46 CRJ's that are getting parked. In fast round numbers, you are talking about 200 extra pilots that will not have planes to fly.

Hows that CPP program working on the L-ASA side?

Originally Posted by No Lies (Post 2265157)

Ok. Lets look at the numbers of what the ERJ side parked and compare. A little bit of difference between 27 planes getting parked in a year compared to the 46 CRJ's that are getting parked. In fast round numbers, you are talking about 200 extra pilots that will not have planes to fly.

Hows that CPP program working on the L-ASA side?

Originally Posted by BeechPilot33 (Post 2265147)

We need good 145 guys at Piedmont if anyone is interested. Opportunities for check airman and junior upgrade is 4 months on property. PM if you need a rec. SIM partner was XJet heard all about the **** going on but he is glad he made the switch.

Originally Posted by Hou757 (Post 2265188)

You have to be clueless. We've parked far more than 27 a year on the ERJ side (all w/out the CPP) as you suggest. ASA is also gaining 12 700's to fly for American so you can deduct that from the 46a/c. I highly doubt there will be any furloughs. They also have high attrition.

Originally Posted by Hou757 (Post 2265243)

Hey No Clue.. My point is we have parked/transferred well over 100 a/c on the ERJ side with no furloughs and are still understaffed. There was even one year we parked over 50 a/c. All this was before anyone left for the CPP. As much as I hate to see this happening to the ASA side I believe they will not furlough.

Originally Posted by Hou757 (Post 2237442)

Please show us where Skywest said that! They've actually stated the opposite quite frequently.

Originally Posted by Mesabah (Post 2262661)

Scope is locked at Delta for at least 20 years, this is it, there is no more room for expansion in the regionals with US carriers. If there is any expansion, it will be with NAI type carriers.

Originally Posted by No Lies (Post 2265146)

1. All
2. ?
3. All parked in 2017.

Originally Posted by GuppyNG (Post 2265268)

All parked in 2017? Quit telling lies.