Rock

Actual first class barely exists on any airline now, and that was before COVID. It will be even more scarce after COVID. Even on old favorites like Singapore or Cathey Pacific.

Meat Fighter

Exactly..... It's the company that decides their fleet mix in order to successfully achieve their business model. I do not understand when pilots take the company position and argue that our pay should not be commensurate with industry aircraft type because the company chose to use 76's and 77's. Whether or not we benefit from longer periods as WB pilots doesn't mean we should be making the company's argument for them. Industry pay's "X" at 12 years of service for CA/FO on "X" aircraft. We should be paid commensurate with that amount or more. Leave it to the company to counter with career total compensation or how many of our pilots fly widebody compared to Delta/AA/United. That's not our problem, that's the company's because their business model requires these aircraft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G935A using Tapatalk

Nightflyer

I have flown first class several times on a FedEx deadhead, before the union sold the "lie flat seats won't take that away" BS to us.

The union gave away our quality of life and was too stupid to realize they were doing it. That should scare everyone.

Does anyone want to trust these fools with their pancake retirement plan, based on their previous record?

I certainly don't.

No pancakes for me!!! Not only no, but hell no!!!

Rock

Um hmm. Try doing it now. Most airlines that fly 747’s are getting rid of them or already have. Many that fly the 380 are seriously considering leaving them grounded after COVID and that includes Emirates. The 787 is replacing most international wide bodies and it doesn’t have a first class option. Almost no airline is ordering the A350 with first class. American Airlines still flies 777-300ERs with first class seats but they are the only domestic carrier that does. So unless you want Fedex to build its schedules around American Airlines 777-300ER routes, (right now they only fly into London), the whole international first class option is rapidly going the way of the dinosaur. Dying on that hill seems a bit pointless.

Noworkallplay

HAHAH I love the saying "the union gave it away".... No the pilot group voted on it. I wasn't part of "that pilot group" in 2015. Where you? Blame all your fellow pilots who were around then. They are the ones to blame since they held the vote. Its time this pilot group takes responsibility for their actions and stops blaming everyone else while they slurp on draft. I love hearing guys biatching about some stupid thing while bragging about their draft and W2. I don't feel a bit sorry for them. Cry away!!!!!!!

Remember if you were on property in 2015 more than 1 out of every 2 of "your buddies" voted yes. So better start complaining to them. Not trying to sound like an A hole but im tired of the lack of responsibility from the "old guard". You are the ones that were around to prevent it!!!! If its so bad then please retire early. Oh im sure that leads to another complaint on why thats not possible. Sorry im just feed up with the whining.

As someone posted above the problem was that "first class" was a changing term prior to 2015 CBA and some airlines "first class" didn't have suitable reclining seats, so its sounds like from what I have been told by guys around at that time, this language was added to clarify what seat service requirements needed to be in place. It also was a changing industry and "first class" was going away in favor of "business class". So it sounds like this was an attempt to align with the terms of the passenger airlines and their level of service for the tickets being sold.

PS:Every ticket I was owed a first class ticket on this year I got one.

Noworkallplay

Stop talking logically Rock. That has no place on internet forums or Jetflyers. Please fall in line with the 10%ers and complain and blame.

golfandfly

Again, you don’t get it. Many of us noticed new wording in the contract that we thought would be an issue with first class seats. Our negotiating chairman, on video, said that there would be no changes to the current rules. Of course he was wrong. We grieved this issue, and lost, because we had no notes or documentation on this subject.

So, yes, we had over 50% foolishly vote for this POS contract. On this particular issue, the membership brought this issue up, but were publicly told that there would be no change to the international first class policy. I can’t blame the membership on this issue.

MX727

Look, I agree with a lot of your perspective. However, you are missing a big point here. You said we get more FC domestically, we don't, nothing changed.

Yes, FC is rarer now days, but it wasn't in 2015 and the point everyone is trying to get you to understand is we told the negotiating committee the language was problematic and they ignored us. There was no reason to add that language. No one said to build a schedule around anything such thing, but if you are on one of those flights, it was lost, even when the FC and BC fares were EXACTLY the same, as they were on that AA HKG-DFW flight at the time.

The lesson is, watch out next round. Too many people look at pay rates and then vote. It has been, is and always will be about the work rules.

Noworkallplay

[QUOTE=MX727;3111103]Look, I agree with a lot of your perspective. However, you are missing a big point here. You said we get more FC domestically, we don't, nothing changed.

Yes, FC is rarer now days, but it wasn't in 2015 and the point everyone is trying to get you to understand is we told the negotiating committee the language was problematic and they ignored us. There was no reason to add that language. No one said to build a schedule around anything such thing, but if you are on one of those flights, it was lost, even when the FC and BC fares were EXACTLY the same, as they were on that AA HKG-DFW flight at the time.

The lesson is, watch out next round. Too many people look at pay rates and then vote. It has been, is and always will be about the work rules.[/QUOTE

Ok, so fair point. Lets not mess with anything but pay rates and fix retirement. Then don't complain about what should have been done post next contract. Oh “fix retirement”. What does that mean? You ask 10 people and get 10 different answers. So if I don't get “my” idea of a fix im going to complain and throw a fit. Im going to claim we could have gotten so much more. You see the point?

MEMA300

[QUOTE=Noworkallplay;3111182]
we will NEVER get a pay raise or cola adjustment without negative movement work rules. It is how they pay for the contract. Remember all the “COST NEUTRAL” stickers from FPA??? That has always been the goal of flt mngmt and both unions and their membership have been more than happy to comply. They will NEVER sign a contract that makes em go to the financial analysts and say, “yeah we gotta pay more for pilots to move the freight”. Not...gonna...happen.