We expect rumors will begin to emanate...
11-21-2021, 06:19 AM
#21
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 446
All,
Let's take a step back and look at the facts.
The MEC's Strategic Goals clearly state: "Operate with Transparency and Integrity". Are they, on retirement, the rest of the contract? I would say NO. This is the root of the problem. It smells funny.
With the history of contract '15 and the nearly complete loss of credibility associated with that contract, Transparency and Integrity are desperately needed.
When the MEC and the NC finally start to spend a little of their minimal reserves of Transparency on We the People, We may have a postage sized picture of what they are negotiating on our behalf and if we like what we see using our magnifying glasses, they will end threads like this all by themselves.
Until then, We the People have a right to complain, on any medium we want, about how we are being purposefully kept in the dark about negotiations which directly effect our Pay, Retirement, Healthcare, Scope, Work Rules, Etc. because it has happen before.
Anyone who says we don't, might want to think back to '15 (yes Six years ago) and remember how they felt then with what happened to us, not for us.
Let's take a step back and look at the facts.
The MEC's Strategic Goals clearly state: "Operate with Transparency and Integrity". Are they, on retirement, the rest of the contract? I would say NO. This is the root of the problem. It smells funny.
With the history of contract '15 and the nearly complete loss of credibility associated with that contract, Transparency and Integrity are desperately needed.
When the MEC and the NC finally start to spend a little of their minimal reserves of Transparency on We the People, We may have a postage sized picture of what they are negotiating on our behalf and if we like what we see using our magnifying glasses, they will end threads like this all by themselves.
Until then, We the People have a right to complain, on any medium we want, about how we are being purposefully kept in the dark about negotiations which directly effect our Pay, Retirement, Healthcare, Scope, Work Rules, Etc. because it has happen before.
Anyone who says we don't, might want to think back to '15 (yes Six years ago) and remember how they felt then with what happened to us, not for us.
11-21-2021, 06:24 AM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2006
Posts: 1,804
Originally Posted by Huck
Ask yourself...who benefits by the constant complaining about ALPA here on APC?
There's your answer.
There's your answer.
Discussion on social media is not bad for the crew force
11-21-2021, 06:54 AM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
Originally Posted by Huck
Asking it in public (here) is divisive. And very helpful to the company. This site is hit multiple times a day in various cubicles on Democrat, Airways and at Ford and Harrison.
Uhhhhhh we asked directly and the results were the same. We’ve been asking
11-21-2021, 07:30 AM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
The way I see it right now, fighting the company unknown proposal could in itself be an endorsement of the union unknown proposal. This could just be part of the company’s play book, then we get stuck with a pancake plan which we indirectly supported. If if not raising the cap or something along those lines I don’t want it.
The union has a reputation of twisting or answers to their survey. Be not wanting one thing often turns into supporting another which was never part of the question asked.
The union has a reputation of twisting or answers to their survey. Be not wanting one thing often turns into supporting another which was never part of the question asked.
11-21-2021, 08:41 AM
#25
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Originally Posted by DR K
- Company response “diametrically opposed” to union retirement proposal. “ Bankruptcy era response.” B plan only?
- “It reflects very few of the pilot inputs that formed the basis of our retirement proposal.”
Pilot inputs demanded pancakes? Company apparently allergic to pancakes. Me too.
- Company says pancakes are cost prohibitive. Who the heck knows since there is no codified funding requirement concerning pancake plans with permanent stabilization side savings accounts in existence.
- Lots of “the company doesn’t want you to know what they REALLY want to do to your benefits” and what they really DONT want you to know is”.
If we only knew what our actual retirement proposal was (pancake vs increase current plan) AND if that actually aligned with the desire of the pilot group concerning the pancake plan then outrage could be shared.
Instead it’s all cryptic and angry about what we don’t even know.
Cue the rumors from various sources - this means the membership probably needs a more clear explanation of our own position.
- “It reflects very few of the pilot inputs that formed the basis of our retirement proposal.”
Pilot inputs demanded pancakes? Company apparently allergic to pancakes. Me too.
- Company says pancakes are cost prohibitive. Who the heck knows since there is no codified funding requirement concerning pancake plans with permanent stabilization side savings accounts in existence.
- Lots of “the company doesn’t want you to know what they REALLY want to do to your benefits” and what they really DONT want you to know is”.
If we only knew what our actual retirement proposal was (pancake vs increase current plan) AND if that actually aligned with the desire of the pilot group concerning the pancake plan then outrage could be shared.
Instead it’s all cryptic and angry about what we don’t even know.
Cue the rumors from various sources - this means the membership probably needs a more clear explanation of our own position.
All I needed to see in that communication was this : "What management doesn’t want you to hear is that they made a proposal that is ultimately rooted in bankruptcy era contracts at other properties that place all the retirement risks on pilots."
I got the message and see the games the company is playing now.
11-21-2021, 08:44 AM
#26
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Originally Posted by DR K
I am asking for a clear message so we can unite - exactly opposite of what you say.
if the pancake plan is our goal what then say it and let’s unify if possible.
Are we proposing that our retirement be fundamentally altered to a brand new plan? Seems like this is a basic question that the membership should know before the negotiation fight.
Why do you think we should shut up and work until it’s time to vote? Aren’t you curious or worried if the pancake plan is in it?
Why is the membership the only group not allowed to know if we are asking for a pancake plan for ourselves? Obviously the negotiating committee and company know - we are first ones that need to know - instead we should plan for finding out at the ta.
I’m not sure why demanding this critical information is divisive. Or why we need to keep muzzled if we have questions about completely changing the backbone of our retirement when we get a negotiating email like that.
A clear message would unify and you probably know that. Concealing such enormous details as a replacement pancake plan from the membership is not a good way to conduct business. Unite with information. Withholding information only divides wouldn’t you agree?
if the pancake plan is our goal what then say it and let’s unify if possible.
Are we proposing that our retirement be fundamentally altered to a brand new plan? Seems like this is a basic question that the membership should know before the negotiation fight.
Why do you think we should shut up and work until it’s time to vote? Aren’t you curious or worried if the pancake plan is in it?
Why is the membership the only group not allowed to know if we are asking for a pancake plan for ourselves? Obviously the negotiating committee and company know - we are first ones that need to know - instead we should plan for finding out at the ta.
I’m not sure why demanding this critical information is divisive. Or why we need to keep muzzled if we have questions about completely changing the backbone of our retirement when we get a negotiating email like that.
A clear message would unify and you probably know that. Concealing such enormous details as a replacement pancake plan from the membership is not a good way to conduct business. Unite with information. Withholding information only divides wouldn’t you agree?
Are you a management plant with your couple other buddies on this web page? You are doing exactly what the letter describes. SPREADING RUMORS.
Most likely just a management wannabe.
11-21-2021, 08:57 AM
#27
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Originally Posted by notmrniceguy
this is my first negotiation at fdx. Been an alpa member for 15 years. With posts like this, we deserve whatever trash we get. I know it’s an anonymous board, but this garbage is pathetic. I’m almost embarrassed by us as a group. We can’t keep our lips closed for five minutes. What a joke.
Arm chair quarterback airlines for some of these clowns.
11-21-2021, 10:45 AM
#29
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 909
Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
This is my first negotiation at FDX. Been an ALPA member for 15 years. With posts like this, we deserve whatever trash we get. I know it’s an anonymous board, but this garbage is pathetic. I’m almost embarrassed by us as a group. We can’t keep our lips closed for five minutes. What a joke.
11-21-2021, 11:09 AM
#30
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Mar 2018
Posts: 95
Originally Posted by NotMrNiceGuy
This is my first negotiation at FDX. Been an ALPA member for 15 years. With posts like this, we deserve whatever trash we get. I know it’s an anonymous board, but this garbage is pathetic. I’m almost embarrassed by us as a group. We can’t keep our lips closed for five minutes. What a joke.
It is also interesting that you think we will agree to garbage in this contract. And that it will be the fault of members posting on APC who want information about the most serious aspect of this bargaining. Strange logic.
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