TA???? Rumors???
08-20-2022, 03:50 PM
#91
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
The answer to the first question is that our 74 pay is industry leading
,
,You mean in September it will be.
I don't consider just now passing a pay rate that has been frozen for 3 years as much to brag about. Hopefully we will do better. If not, I certainly will not be bragging about it. That $395 rate that I mentioned is what the United top pay rate would be today if you increased their 2019 rate by 3% a year.
As far as switching to a single pay rate goes with seat movement, it will take years for that to work itself through the system. Again, 90% of our crew force is on wide body pay already, and that doesn't include those on junior activation pay.
Let's just hope that we, as well as the passenger carriers, have contracts that leave UPS looking like redheaded step children. I'd like to see a tsunami of a rising tide, not just a slightly flooded creek.
Last edited by pinseeker; 08-20-2022 at 04:01 PM.
08-20-2022, 05:19 PM
#92
Occasional box hauler
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 1,694
Originally Posted by pinseeker
You mean in September it will be.
I don't consider just now passing a pay rate that has been frozen for 3 years as much to brag about. Hopefully we will do better. If not, I certainly will not be bragging about it. That $395 rate that I mentioned is what the United top pay rate would be today if you increased their 2019 rate by 3% a year.
As far as switching to a single pay rate goes with seat movement, it will take years for that to work itself through the system. Again, 90% of our crew force is on wide body pay already, and that doesn't include those on junior activation pay.
Let's just hope that we, as well as the passenger carriers, have contracts that leave UPS looking like redheaded step children. I'd like to see a tsunami of a rising tide, not just a slightly flooded creek.
I don't consider just now passing a pay rate that has been frozen for 3 years as much to brag about. Hopefully we will do better. If not, I certainly will not be bragging about it. That $395 rate that I mentioned is what the United top pay rate would be today if you increased their 2019 rate by 3% a year.
As far as switching to a single pay rate goes with seat movement, it will take years for that to work itself through the system. Again, 90% of our crew force is on wide body pay already, and that doesn't include those on junior activation pay.
Let's just hope that we, as well as the passenger carriers, have contracts that leave UPS looking like redheaded step children. I'd like to see a tsunami of a rising tide, not just a slightly flooded creek.
08-20-2022, 07:29 PM
#93
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 299
Spin it however ALPA tells you to, but the fact remains: FedEx pilots are undercutting cargo pilot pay rates by flying the same planes for a lot less money. If your wide body pay was significantly higher than UPS’ then maybe it would make sense.
Raise the bar and stop your B scale. A 747 isn’t any harder to fly than a 757. The profits produced by the FDX pilot group should have their 757 pilots making at least what UPS pilots make.
Raise the bar and stop your B scale. A 747 isn’t any harder to fly than a 757. The profits produced by the FDX pilot group should have their 757 pilots making at least what UPS pilots make.
08-20-2022, 08:14 PM
#94
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Joined APC: Oct 2015
Posts: 752
Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella
Spin it however ALPA tells you to, but the fact remains: FedEx pilots are undercutting cargo pilot pay rates by flying the same planes for a lot less money. If your wide body pay was significantly higher than UPS’ then maybe it would make sense.
Raise the bar and stop your B scale. A 747 isn’t any harder to fly than a 757. The profits produced by the FDX pilot group should have their 757 pilots making at least what UPS pilots make.
Raise the bar and stop your B scale. A 747 isn’t any harder to fly than a 757. The profits produced by the FDX pilot group should have their 757 pilots making at least what UPS pilots make.
08-21-2022, 05:22 AM
#96
Banned
Joined APC: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Ray,
Larger airplanes shouldn’t pay more money? This is the case even in the none union corporate world. AA isn’t ALPA and they have airplane size tied to pay and same for Atlas who is Teamsters. It is industry standard to have a compensation scale in this manner. One could argue UPS is dragging the industry WB pay scale down by blending it with a NB pay scale. Be careful throwing stones for one may come back and hit you between the eyes.
Larger airplanes shouldn’t pay more money? This is the case even in the none union corporate world. AA isn’t ALPA and they have airplane size tied to pay and same for Atlas who is Teamsters. It is industry standard to have a compensation scale in this manner. One could argue UPS is dragging the industry WB pay scale down by blending it with a NB pay scale. Be careful throwing stones for one may come back and hit you between the eyes.
08-21-2022, 06:58 AM
#98
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Joined APC: May 2005
Posts: 1,273
Originally Posted by pinseeker
If we are comparing retirement plans, you have to include that the UPS B plan is 33% higher than ours. That B plan difference could be worth over $500,000 in 25 years. Using the standard of taking 4% of your retirement savings a year, that $500,000 would equate to $20,000 additional dollars a year over our B plan. Add that $20,000 to the $116,250 in the A plan, and you get $136,250. So, at this point in time, I would say that both plans are equal, maybe a slight edge to UPS. While our A plan has remained stagnant, theirs has increased making their total retirement package equal to, or slightly ahead of ours at 25 years. I also believe that there is no time requirement for a UPS pilot to be a captain to get the higher retirement. If I understand it correctly, as long as they are a captain at retirement, they get the higher amount.
How is UPS getting past the $61,000 limit (2022 numbers)?
I get that a higher B-plan percentage gets more of UPS’s money into the pot rather than your own, but at a certain point you can’t put any more in over the IRS limit.
By my calculations (which may be wrong), for someone maxing out their B-plan, UPS pilots pay about $8,500/year less into it than we do, but at the end of the year both UPS and FedEx pilots have $61,000 in their respective B-plans. Add another $6,500 if they are eligible for catch-up contributions.
08-21-2022, 07:17 AM
#99
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2015
Posts: 299
Throw all paradigms out about wide body and narrow body pay. The only comparison you should use to measure your pay is UPS. You FedEx guys should not be flying the same plane for 30% less than UPS does.
To spin it is just making excuses. If you maintain a B scale then at least make sure your wide body rates blow UPS rates out of the water.
To spin it is just making excuses. If you maintain a B scale then at least make sure your wide body rates blow UPS rates out of the water.
08-21-2022, 07:51 AM
#100
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,820
Boiler,
I mentioned that we should be looking at United's last pay rate effective on January 1, 2019 instead of the latest contract extension from UPS. That rate was $254/hour. UPS hasn't passed that rate yet, however, on September 1, 2022 you will. That United rate in 2019 would equate to $395/hour today if you use a 3% annual pay increase for 3.67 years.
That seemed to make some of your pilots upset. Their comments are below.
I have stated that I am in favor of floating all boats, and hope our pilot group will have the resolve to do so. I never said UPS was dragging anyone down, unlike the disgruntled pilots above. The people quoted above have been the ones who have mentioned "B" scale pay and hurting the industry. Even the chart you posted shows that in 2019, you were behind the passenger carriers highest pay rates. As far as I know, their planes aren't any harder to fly than our, if that is the argument. I'll say again, I hope that we will do much better than barely passing United's pay rate from 2019. That's not a dig, it is just moving the target away from going slightly higher than the latest contract extension.
Are you guys talking about splitting your pay scales like the rest of the industry does? If not, why does Ray Kinsella give a crap if we do?
I mentioned that we should be looking at United's last pay rate effective on January 1, 2019 instead of the latest contract extension from UPS. That rate was $254/hour. UPS hasn't passed that rate yet, however, on September 1, 2022 you will. That United rate in 2019 would equate to $395/hour today if you use a 3% annual pay increase for 3.67 years.
That seemed to make some of your pilots upset. Their comments are below.
Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella
Your question should be why does your pilot group fly the same planes (757) on the same routes and schedules for considerably less pay than UPS?
Originally Posted by Ray Kinsella
Spin it however ALPA tells you to, but the fact remains: FedEx pilots are undercutting cargo pilot pay rates by flying the same planes for a lot less money....
Raise the bar and stop your B scale.
Raise the bar and stop your B scale.
Originally Posted by tnkrdrvr
Ok… I guess some folks like second rate pay
Originally Posted by BoilerUP
From the DALPA Contract Comparison:
Yes, longevity pay vs. type pay is unique to UPS.
I don't think there's any kind of legitimate argument we're "dragging down" anything with regards to compensation, though.
Yes, longevity pay vs. type pay is unique to UPS.
I don't think there's any kind of legitimate argument we're "dragging down" anything with regards to compensation, though.
I have stated that I am in favor of floating all boats, and hope our pilot group will have the resolve to do so. I never said UPS was dragging anyone down, unlike the disgruntled pilots above. The people quoted above have been the ones who have mentioned "B" scale pay and hurting the industry. Even the chart you posted shows that in 2019, you were behind the passenger carriers highest pay rates. As far as I know, their planes aren't any harder to fly than our, if that is the argument. I'll say again, I hope that we will do much better than barely passing United's pay rate from 2019. That's not a dig, it is just moving the target away from going slightly higher than the latest contract extension.
Are you guys talking about splitting your pay scales like the rest of the industry does? If not, why does Ray Kinsella give a crap if we do?
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