TA???? Rumors???
09-08-2022 | 01:22 PM
#203
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 1,813
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What I’m saying is that if the MEC disagreed with communications or anything, they can and would change their current stance. That fact that they haven’t speaks to what I’m saying, the MEC is doing exactly what it wants, whether that is status quo or change.
You guys just don’t agree with the manner in which they are leading, which is perfectly fine. Let’s just be clear about what we are talking about.
You guys just don’t agree with the manner in which they are leading, which is perfectly fine. Let’s just be clear about what we are talking about.
I know exactly what I am talking about. I don't need you to APCsplain it to me.
So, tell me when the company secures it's contracts for peak? Do you think it is before the end of September? However, this next picketing event which was secret for almost a month was designed to get maximum exposure to pressure the company. This is 4 months past the date you stated that the protocol agreement opened all sections of the contract.
I only hope that the NC is able to get a TA that is supported by 90% plus of us before then. Otherwise, I see more of the same. We fell for it in 2011, and 4.5 years later we got a crappy contract that barely passed. I hope I am wrong!
09-08-2022 | 01:43 PM
#204
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2021
Posts: 442
Likes: 0
You may know the value sought at that time, but every time I have heard our NC chair speak or read what he has written, the HOW has been fluid and vague. Trying to hold him or any of the reps down to Just raise the FAE has been met with Stern rejection, so no, you don't know the how. If you do, then the NC chair is not telling us the truth. Either way Will Robinson should be getting a danger alert from his robot.
09-08-2022 | 02:35 PM
#205
Banned
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
Likes: 0
Ok, then why is it a mystery to rest of us? Oh I remember a TA is supposed to be like a box of cracker Jack's you just don't know what you get until you open it. This entire process is both maddening and laughable. In 30 years in this business this is the weakest union I've ever seen. I'm not talking about the leadership. I mean the Back biting, self dealing, me first behavior, of the rank and file member is so common one wonders why the company doesn't just drag this out ad infinitum. Couple that with "we can't tell you what we're asking for" because of the oft repeated and absurd everytime it's spoken notion about "negotiating in public" and i find myself having no faith in the process nor those repeating just trust us. The leading survey questions and the outside of section 6 offers to amend a major section of the contract all communicate the top down shut up and color mentality that has no place in a private workforce.
This TA will be full of concessions at a time when there should be none. Offering your VB plan as an "option" while offering little to no gains for the DB plan isn't a win. It's a concession. Give aways on vacation and travel arent part of some hard fought strategy to secure an industry leading contract. They are concessions pure and simple. If you need to read them over and consider their merits in the midst of the largest labor shortage in more a generation and with the company yielding eye watering finanical gains , well I look forward to more degraded TAs to come under the nuanced guise of "this works for me".
This TA will be full of concessions at a time when there should be none. Offering your VB plan as an "option" while offering little to no gains for the DB plan isn't a win. It's a concession. Give aways on vacation and travel arent part of some hard fought strategy to secure an industry leading contract. They are concessions pure and simple. If you need to read them over and consider their merits in the midst of the largest labor shortage in more a generation and with the company yielding eye watering finanical gains , well I look forward to more degraded TAs to come under the nuanced guise of "this works for me".
After that long post you got to the real problem. It has never been the signature on the bottom of a union letter, but the greed of the majority of our pilots. Got it. The rest is inconsequential. Same as 2015. Same as what’s transpiring at other airlines with pilots who cant make less than 120 hours of pay a month. No leverage.
09-13-2022 | 11:18 AM
#206
Organizational Learning
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,948
Likes: 0
From: Directly behind the combiner
After that long post you got to the real problem. It has never been the signature on the bottom of a union letter, but the greed of the majority of our pilots. Got it. The rest is inconsequential. Same as 2015. Same as what’s transpiring at other airlines with pilots who cant make less than 120 hours of pay a month. No leverage.
We MUST be positive, and encourage one another with our words and our deeds. Together we CAN and MUST succeed. Are there some who are slow to learn? Yepp. Will they defeat us? Nope. Lead the way, and they will follow.
.
09-13-2022 | 11:35 AM
#207
Organizational Learning
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 4,948
Likes: 0
From: Directly behind the combiner
If you think you knew exactly what the Negotiating Committee passed to The Company as our initial Retirement Proposal, you must have been in a very tiny minority of the MEC.
My suspicions about the MEC having NOT met nor been briefed between the Sep 1 final meeting with The Company and the Negotiator's Notepad: Update 19 two days later has been confirmed. The MEC was informed only by the update (and the decision -- by some entity other than the MEC -- to extend negotiations by scheduling more weeks of meetings) just the same as you and me. The "we" in "we have agreed ..." was not the MEC.
.
09-13-2022 | 12:51 PM
#209
Banned
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 1,838
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This was posted to the UA forum shortly after that TA was released
“Pre merger there would have been ZERO United pilots picking up any trips during negotiations. If they had their schedules would have been posted behind the glass of the ALPA message boards for all to see. Now we have a new group of pilots bragging about how they get 140 hours of pay every month and fly down to 10 days off and the TA will hurt their chances to keep flying as much as possible on their days off.
That is the reason we have the current TA. We don’t need improvements to reserve, etc because the company knows they can just add some PP and guys are falling all over themselves to grab those trips, even complaining when they can’t fly OT.
You can blame the NC all you want but this pilot group’s daily actions are the blame.”
Currently we are headed down the same path and we have earned it as a pilot group. You don’t get what you have earned. You get what you are willing to fight for. Up to this point we have failed to show any fight.
09-14-2022 | 04:39 AM
#210
Line Holder
Joined: Apr 2007
Posts: 916
Likes: 2
Still more posts disparaging fellow pilots. The Company must love it. An attempt to discourage us from holding the line because "All the other kids are doing it."
We MUST be positive, and encourage one another with our words and our deeds. Together we CAN and MUST succeed. Are there some who are slow to learn? Yepp. Will they defeat us? Nope. Lead the way, and they will follow.
.
We MUST be positive, and encourage one another with our words and our deeds. Together we CAN and MUST succeed. Are there some who are slow to learn? Yepp. Will they defeat us? Nope. Lead the way, and they will follow.
.
You almost got it right TC, let me fix it for you.
We MUST be positive and encourage one another with our deeds and words by FLYING OUR LINES. Together we CAN and MUST FLY ONLY OUR AWARDED LINES. Are there some who are not? Yep, most everyone I fly with. Will they defeat us? Yes, they are defeating our effort to get a well deserved contract in a timely manner. Lead the way and FLY YOUR LINE. Period.
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