What he said!

 

That's not going to happen - especially not with this crew force. We aren't fighters naturally and we aren't being led by fighters.

 

Not what he said.

 

If we give up anything just to get a pay raise then in reality, it not a raise. If we give up anything to enhance an aged pension plan then all we’re doing is paying for something which was supposed to be automatic. And we’re not paying for it by sacrificing those who are not yet on property either. That’s an automatic no vote from me.

 

So you are saying that if the NC can get us a $1 dollar an hour pay increase, you would consider it a gain? I mean, that is what the math says, isn't it? The fact that our pension hasn't changed in 24 years shouldn't be looked at as not getting a gain in your eyes? The fact that our top pay rates were ahead of the passenger carriers and now are well behind them is still considered a gain in your eyes?

You were the one who mentioned work rules, not the poster you quoted. The poster you quoted was saying that there is little that the company was asking for in this contract, so what is the incentive for the company to quickly give us what we want. Why wait until this late date with peak coming to ask for expedited mediation instead of seeking it months ago. If we had been in expedited mediation in Jully and August, we could have put more pressure on the company for peak.

Myself and others have been stating that we need leadership to prepare the crew force to fight for the contract we deserve. So far, that hasn't happened. Opportunities have been lost. Advantages have been squandered. All the while, the company has been playing the same game they have played during every contract.

 

Yes, like I said, math. Im NOT saying it’s enough. But that wasn’t the point. The poster did in fact say to go into mediation with the sections that were still open in May. Well, other than the money sections that are open now, the only other sections that were still open then were work rule sections. And the sections that the company asked to open were already TA’d by May. The insinuation was that we needed those other open sections to negotiate because the money sections are all gains. Again, your beef isn’t with me.

 

I don't know how to have a rational discussion with someone that argues that a $1 per hour raise would be a gain in the money sections, but I'm going to try.

Since the poster you quoted was Tuck , unless you say otherwise, I'm going with that is who you are referring to as the poster. My beef isn't with what Tuck said, it is with what you are saying.

You said..

and

The poster said....

I put in bold the section you actually quoted. Now, nowhere in that post can I find the words "May" or "work rules" mentioned. Maybe you could point them out for me? Where did Tuck state that we needed work rules open to have something to give the company to get what we want in the money sections? I understand that is how you interpreted his post, but that is not what he said.

You are claiming that only the money sections and the work rules sections were still in play in May? How many money sections do you think there are? How many work rules sections do you think there are? You are also saying that all of the sections that the company opened were TA'd in May. That's funny, the company opened 8 sections, 4 of those sections were also opened by us. So you think that there were 8 sections TA'd in May?

You seem to be happy with the pace of negotiations. That is fine. Those of us who have been through 3 or 4 of these recognize the game that the company is playing. We only wish the MEC would have recognized it long ago and started preparing the crew force for the fight ahead. I'm not looking for a contract that is simply "ratifiable." I want a contract that recognizes us for the value we bring to the company and the work we have done these last 2.5 years. Thank you is not enough.

 

It’s obvious I’m not explaining myself well so I’ll try again. And I will add that I am interpreting tucks posts but so far I haven’t received any pushback on that. But I will concede if I misunderstood what he is saying.

But from my reading of what he said is that management didn’t get much from the TAd sections (non money sections) according to his rep and that the money sections are pure gains for pilots (obvious because we would never negotiate pay cuts, lower perdiem, worse retirement, no bonus). This is the context of what I was referring to when referring to gains. Any positive in the money sections are gains. Its not that $1 was enough, just pointing out the arithmetic in the truth to the statement just to make a rhetorical point (not to be taken literally). And here is my interpretation, we have nothing left to negotiate (give) because only the sections that are gains for us are left. So there is no longer incentive for management to complete negotiations when only the pilot gain sections are left. So therefore we should’ve made this move earlier (before only the money sections were are left) so that there is an incentive for management to negotiate.


Edit to add, i see I got the May month from a different poster when replying to tuck. But that is irrelevant. The point I was making to him in my reply is that we don’t want to go into negotiating money gains by giving in on the non money sections by retroactively whisking we would’ve asked for expedited mediation at an earlier time when there were still non money sections left open to negotiate.

 

Speak for yourself and stop projecting what you “believe” to be true. The folks fighting are in the trenches working to improve our current contract.

I know plenty of our pilots are supporting the efforts and will fight for what we deserve. I read about the fight and see we just filed for mediation. Looks like the fight is ongoing to me.

THIS is not fighting. This is botching behind a keyboard and pretending to be tough.

What are you doing to really join the fight? I doubt anything.

 

FXLAX, This point is worthy of debate. The "When" we ask for Expedited Negotiations does have ramifications at the table. I believe earlier would have been better. I understand you, Fxlax are happy with the "when". I just look at the number of pilots retiring this Dec 31 without an increased Pension and believe if we had done this back in June, there could have been a chance for a TA in time for them and all of us would be benefiting from the improvements sooner.