It would be awesome to have but FedEx would never do it because it would cost a couple of lines of code and increase pilot QOL at no cost to FedEx. What will you give up to get it will be the question?

 

I learned many decades ago, one oh s#&*t cancels out 100 at a boys.

 

A slight majority of pilots here voted to overhaul our Filling of Vacancies section of the CBA in 2015, and that's the ... show we have now. These days, it's hard to find anyone around who voted Yes.






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This thread is a must read for new hires or wannabes at FedEx. These are real world posts from pilots who learned the truth after switching to FedEx. The grass is not greener here. There are a lot of cons to working at FedEx.

This thread is so stereotypical of what happens at FedEx. A pilot complains about the contract and someone who hasn't worked at any airline other than Uncle Sam chimes in to say something ignorant. These folks have been told they're they're best of the best throughout their entire military career ... and that FedEx is the best of the best. But IMO, that has changed.

Prior to 9-11 .... that's September 11th for the Zers, FedEx and UPS lagged in work rules and pay. They were considered second rate airlines to Delta, US Air, American, Continental, Northwest and United. After 9-11 bankruptcies and consolidations, legacy airline contracts, especially in pay rates, fell below UPS and FedEx. Suddenly UPS and FedEx were the two hottest chicks left at the dance and it is 2am. Flash forward 20 years. The legacies have been clawing their way back from bankruptcy. FedEx and UPS still haven't raised the bar in term of 2002 pay rates adjusted for inflation. After FedEx's abysmal failure of a contract in 2015, the legacies were now on par in pay. UPS pay rates are much higher than FedEx's. However, folks still preferred to haul boxes over passengers. I get it, I made the jump myself from a legacy. But times have changed. The 9-11 bankruptcy contracts are well past us.

FedEx pilots current pay rates would be much lower had it not been for COVID19. COVID19 slowed the legacies next round of contracts. Now that COVID19 is over and the passenger airlines need pilots ... lots of pilots, they're seeing significant gains in pay rates (for example ... Delta's 34% pay improvement) and quality of life items. But it just isn't about pay too. Future retirements at FedEx are dwarfed by the legacy retirements. FedEx rapidly grew during COVID19 while sacrificing customer service. FedEx's rapid growth is over. The legacies are going to continue to grow. Therefore, anyone hired at FedEx in the next 5 years or possibly more is going to see very slow seat progression. FedEx IS NOT the place to be junior.

I've highlighted in red the typical response when someone says something about FedEx's contract. Every FedEx wannabe should read these comments.And then there's this ...FXLAX: TonyC is right. FedEx had passover pay and a filling of vacancies system that didn't violate seniority. However, in a rush to settle a contract with the company, the union leadership pushed a concessionary 2015 contract to the FedEx pilots and they ratified it. The company schooled the FedEx pilots in several areas of the new contract. This is why TonyC says it's hard to find anyone who voted for it. Why? Because it was a huge setback while other airlines were making gains and they're embarrassed to admit it now.

FedEx pay rates are already behind the legacies. The legacies are going to get huge increases as we've already seen in United's failed AIP and Delta's AIP soon to be official TA. If I were a wannabe, I'd choose carefully. FedEx has too much risk involved anymore.

FedEx's CONS:
Night Flying. Unless you get seniority fast which is unlikely, you're going to be flying nights. Night hub turns slowly kill you. Not joking. And compared to legacies, FedEx's supposed "day flying" is also night flying as you come back to the hub at midnight to 1am. The "twilight sort" at Indy (which is flown by all bases) has a lot of midnight to 10am flying which is slightly different than the 9pm-5am typical night hub flying.
Lagging B-fund: FedEx's B-fund has fallen behind UPS's and is well behind the top legacies.
Dying A-Fund: FedEx's creme de la creme, the A-fund is now down to a 17% income replacement ratio. It is dying due to inflation. It is hardly the game changer anymore.
Section 24 and System Bids: Junior people and new hires will be trained and moved in your seat before you will be -- and you won't be paid for it. FedEx likes long wasteful system bids ... sometimes more than 2-years to train out and execute.
FedEx IT systems ... you'll be shocked as to how hard it is to put in for trip swaps, changing your schedule if even possible, doing expense reports. Yes, you have to do monthly expense reports like reporting hotel receipts and commercial ticket receipts etc.etc. You'll end up buying third party software to bid.
No easy base transfers ... even if you have someone willing to swap with you. You'll have to wait for system bids and then it could be 2 years after that. We currently have folks waiting until May 23 for a base transfer on a system bid that was in Nov 21.
Reserves ... EVERY SINGLE DAY YOU SIT RESERVE AT FEDEX HAS A 1.5 HOUR REPORT TIME. SO YOU MUST BE IN MEMPHIS OR YOUR BASE ON EVERY RESERVE DAY. Unlike the legacies, long calls can be sat at home. And Delta is getting 18 hour call outs!!!
No paid training hotels. You have to pay for your own hotels if you live outside of base.
Yes some of our domestic flights may qualify for catering. Trust me, you don't want to eat the "cold" meals. The hot international meals are ok though.
Even if you are a line holder, the contract at FedEx pretty much means you are on reserve ... the company can pretty much do anything it wants with you and/or your trip. Good luck if you are put into "substitution" ... Chinese arithmetic is probably easier to understand than the substitution diagram. Understanding substitution from reading the contract, impossible. Don't doubt me on this. Also, you can be involuntarily extended up to 3.5 days. It happens especially for international folks.
Operational Emergencies !!! ... FedEx can and will require you by contract to fly to the FAR maximums (that's a 16 hour duty day no matter when your show time was).
On reserves, you can and you will do up to four night hub turns in a week.
No FAR 117. FedEx and UPS operate under the Cargo Carveout. The corporations lobbied the FAA for it. It isn't in your favor.
Very tight manning. Reserve lines make up 10% of the known lines. Secondary or PBS lines make up about 20% of lines. You can and will get assigned reserve status during the Secondary or PBS process.
No profit sharing or other goal sharing incentive programs (for example Delta's on-time performance and baggage goals).
Unlike legacies, if you accidentally bring a weapon (as defined by FedEx security) through security, you'll be fired no questions asked. You don't get your job back. FedEx's restricted item list is much larger than the FAA's.
You fly a lot of extremely hazardous cargo. My personal favorite is Class 4, spontaneously combustibles. I'm not joking. Only the 777s and MD11s have upper deck cargo fire suppression. Good luck at 30 west in a 767, we're all counting on ya.
While the passenger carriers have the passenger bill of rights and they cancel a lot with bad weather, you're going to fly no matter what. As long as it's legal by the FARs, you're going.
Jump seating to long haul flights is frowned upon. The pilot isn't pay protected if there's a disruption with your jump seat flight and you were to fly a long haul flight.
Fred Smith is retiring. FedEx Express (the airline) is no longer his baby. We have no management and they don't have a love affair for pilots or planes. Things are a changing and not in a good way. FedEx hired two SVPs to work on efficiency with the airline.

FedEx's Pros:
More wide body positions
Dying a-fund
Best vacation system
70% of the bid pack (flying lines) are hard lines.
Guaranteed jump seat to work IF able to reserve 21 days in advance

There's probably more cons but it is 1:15 am and I have to go to work.

 

^^^^^Information is knowledge^^^^^ Already had a good grasp of the deterioration from many friends who have been behind the Purple curtain for decades. Everyone should find actual folks who reside at any outfit to learn the pros and cons in order to meet their priorities. Dogs are great - but every dog in our world has fleas, it’s just finding the ones with the least or ones you can live with. Definitely rooting for y’all to turn your ship around for the better. Thank you for a very informative post.

 

Tons of truth in this thread about purple. The sentiment here is we are better than everyone in this industry. I’m still trying to figure out why everyone thinks that here

 

Good point

So a few of the changes that were ratified into the current contract have been negative. So now the sentiment is, let’s not change anything anymore ever (cementing all the bad things) because we are afraid that it will be made worse.

 

Nice post, but a lot of half truths. A large portion of our pilots have been hired since the 2015 contract was ratified. These same pilots claim to know what's best and have done a lot of research. If they were so smart, why did they choose to come to an inferior airline? These same pilots were bragging just a few years ago about their large pay checks. They were claiming that a 2nd year FO could easily clear over $300K. When pay rates were pointed out, they said that you just have to know how to use the contract. We haven't changed contracts, so why was it so good before, but now it is and has been and inferior contract.

Now for some of your exaggerations. First, not every trip can be extended by 84 hours. In fact, only trips scheduled to international parameters can be extended by that much. Domestic trips can be extended by 36 hours. FedEx can't make you work to FAR limits. Even during an operational emergency, you can still say enough. Every reserve day at FedEx isn't a 1.5 hour call out. The A plan isn't a 17% income replacement ratio unless you are choosing to work a lot of extra. For it to be a 17% income replacement ratio, you would have to be making over $764K a year while our highest pay rate is $335.56. The list goes on, such as your prediction in 2016 that FedEx would be moving to a much shorter bid in order to avoid paying the pennies they would be required to pay by training a new hire before a current line pilot when compared to the passover pay we had before.

Our contract needs improvement. The question is, are we willing to fight for it. Are you going to chase dollars, or quality of life? It seems to me, most have chosen dollars.

 

You are right that over half our pilot force wasn’t here in 2015. Let’s hope we don’t make the same mistake our predecessors did. Sadly I agree with you that most have chosen dollars over QOL life though and that is even more evident by our “focused negotiations”. How’s that going for us?

There are a few exaggerations in KC’s post but not by much.

Yes, we have R24 lines (24hr callout) but we all know those aren’t being used as originally intended. Check any schedule for someone with R24 and you’ll wanna throw up all over yourself. Hotel standby (1.5hr call out) is the norm. If not, the chances are you’ll get assigned a trip fairly far out. Then nothing on day two and another trip on day 3. So you can’t really commute home so you end up at a hotel/Crashpad just as if you had been on short call. Too many single day trips are assigned to R24 pilots and it makes the lines unbearable. I avoid them at all costs. They are not the good deal that they sound.

I also don’t get the 17% income replacement ratio, but I welcome KC to show his math. There is no doubt that the pension is dying though. As it is not inflation protected the worth of the pension today, is NOT what it will be in 10, 20, or 40 years from now.

As to the FAR limit thing, a huge problem is that not enough pilots call in “fatigued” when they really should. You can see a train wreck coming and try to tell CRS “this isn’t gonna work”. They don’t care. They will force you into a fatigue call and then your actions are scrutinized to see if you’ll get paid or not.

I have called in fatigued and I can tell you the very first question that was asked was “when will you be ready to go?” I have no idea! In the meantime as I’m trying to sleep and recover they revise the schedule to be even worse than it was before. We had to complain multiple times until an acceptable solution was found.

The international extension time is why I personally avoid international trips. My spouse counts on me being home when I say I’ll be home. I can’t take the risk that I need to bid around an event by three days just because my trip is international.

I’ll add another head scratcher for me. Is it not true that at other airlines your trip can pass through base and you’re still on the same trip? That’s not the case here. If you touch base the trip is over.

If you have all hub turns (day or night) through your base those are all individual trips. Your pay (and per diem) stop while you are in base. Doing PM hub turns through MEM? That could be up to a 6 hr sit where you aren’t getting paid, no per diem, the “cafeteria” is a joke, and your catering parameters were based on each individual trip so you also don’t get catering. If you flew the exact same trip but turned through IND instead of MEM you would continue to get paid, get per diem, AND get catering. If you want to eat that catering or not is a whole different story.

Ok, now for one thing I do like…kinda. Deadheads and the ability to deviate potentially cutting time off your trip. We also keep all the airline miles so it can mean you get status. Deviating doesn’t come without risks though. If you deviate on the front end you have ZERO protections if something goes sideways. So plan accordingly. Also it often appears that the company goes hunting for flights where the accepted fare is completely unrealistic. That means if you don’t have the deviation bank you may not be able to get there from where you are. There are also a bunch of rules of HOW you can use the bank, which make no sense as to why the company would care, that can really limit you. Finally with the bank, as it stands the funds are no going away but that is under the COVID MOU and could go away at any time unless our new contract solidifies that the current procedures stay.

Probation is a whole different animal here. They company can and will fire you. While I wouldn’t call it fear it does seem like probationary pilots have to tread very very lightly here. I don’t get the impression it’s quite as harsh at the Legacy’s.

I know personally I came here over a Legacy because of how much FedEx had been talked up. That and what I was told about it being commuter friendly. I’ve found that what I was sold is also a “bunch of half truths”.

I didn’t know if I was ready to move to a Legacy base. Sure you can commute to them but it seemed to me that the commuters I knew at other airlines had it much rougher. I do still believe that FedEx is the best option if you’re going to commute. I’d say you should think really hard about it though because in reality FedEx is great if you are a commuter AND live near a large airline hub where you can get cheap, direct flights for your deadheads. Otherwise, a two leg deviation is still a two leg trip. See my thoughts on front end deadheads above.


You can do all the research you want but the simple reality is there is no way you can understand all the ins and outs before deciding. We do have a fair number of pilots who came over from Legacy’s so I’d love to hear what it was they disliked so much over there that made them switch over.

The knock on too many military folks isn’t an anti-military thing. It’s more that you don’t know what you don’t know. The majority of our pilots don’t know our own contract so how can they possibly know others and demand that we have similar items? They see it as life is better than it had been working for Uncle Sam and that’s as far as it goes.

 

I did.

I don't engage in historical revisionism, though.....