Originally Posted by pinseeker

So, where were you two years ago when some of us were saying that we needed to let our reps know what we want before the train left the station? Now, that train has traveled across the country and is almost at its destination and you want to turn it around because you forgot to pack your toothbrush. The openers have been published for almost 22 months. The items you are screaming about were never in the openers. You say no concessions, yet even the all mighty Delta contract has concessions, even though there MEC says there isn't. Is that the definition of concessions, the fact the MEC say there are? If so, then we don't have any concessions in ours either, just ask the MEC.

I for one am not willing to derail the train just because Johny got an iPhone 14 Pro Max in blue and we get the same phone in space grey. Will the contract meet the objectives in the openers? If it does, then the NC did what they were told to do. You can't change the game in the bottom of the 9th.

We need to stop playing one group against the other. We are not civilian vs military vs new guy vs old guy, we are all FedEx pilots and need to act as a group. When we get separated, that is when we all lose.

Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude

Pattern bargaining. What was industry standard a month ago is no longer industry standard. That’s how it works.

Originally Posted by opt0712

No. That guy is on here as kronan. Besides pin isn't wrong. When the entire TA comes out and you've read it in it's entirety, vote NO. If the majority does as well, now every section is fair game.

Originally Posted by UnusualAttitude

Pattern bargaining. What was industry standard a month ago is no longer industry standard. That’s how it works.

Originally Posted by coryk

RE: derailing the train.

I am. Lots of us are. We aren’t just going to toe the line. We’re ready to dig in and wait, as long as it takes, to get it right.

The goal posts have moved, this is a different game now than two years ago.

Originally Posted by pinseeker

So why are you wasting time? We are not opening any other sections. We are not going back and renegotiating any TA'd sections. If you want a full rewrite, then you need to start recalling reps to get a majority who support your position. You will also have to make sure that those reps have a large number of members. At that point, mediation will end because we have started over. We are no longer just stuck and in need of mediation. The NMB will tell us to come back after we have made genuine attempts to negotiate the new sections we have opened. Don't take this as a "we can't do it" response, that is not what it is intended to be. I'm simply saying that if you want to change the direction and open up all sections of the contract, it will require a new MEC. Waiting to vote on a TA that you know you will vote NO for is simply wasting time.

Originally Posted by pinseeker

What do you think pattern bargaining is? Based on your implications, we shouldn't have even started negotiations until one of the big 3 had a new contract. Pattern bargaining doesn't mean that you start from the beginning once someone else gets a contract. For two years, almost everyone posting here was fine with the targeted negotiations. They were even fine when the one year goal of having a TA had passed and the MEC agreed to keep going with the status quo because we were close. If you think the NMB isn't going to laugh at us if we go back and say we want to open every section because we like what DL got, then you haven't been in this business very long. That authorization to call for a strike vote will be meaningless, because the NMB will kick us out of mediation and tell us to come back in a couple of years when we can figure out what we want and are actually serious about getting a new contract.

Originally Posted by FXLAX

Say it to the Delta pilot then. He doesn’t agree with you either.

But also want to point out that I did comment on your original point. Which is, we didn’t let our reps know 2 years ago (before the spirit, JetBlue, Hawaiin, delta contracts and Ua plus AA ceos saying they will “match” delta) what we want (stuff not in the openers ). So now that we are at compensation and duration you are not willing to “derail the train.” That if the nc meets the objective of the openers, then they did their job. And we can’t change it now at the bottom of the 9th.

The mistake is in thinking we want to derail current negotiations. The other mistake is thinking that this is the end of game. Just like in baseball, there is no time limit and a team can tie the game at the 9th and send it to extra innings. If the nc did their job and yet the TA gets voted down, guess what? We are going extra innings. We can’t have a position that we have to vote whatever TA is put in front of us. If you agree with that, then yes it will be derailed and we will have to start all over.

Like I said, let’s see what the TA says and vote accordingly taking into consideration of the changing market in these last 2 years.

Originally Posted by kronan

And that's why Our NC has been saying the Pay Rates have gotten more expensive for the Company. That Industry Changes would mean Higher Expectations for us. Wasn't that long ago when beating UPS was the goal. Well, now the Goal is beating Delta.