a very small handful... and of that handful, how many are collecting military retirements?

If you've been here 8-10 years and haven't hit your high 5 yet, I have to ask... why did you choose not to? Because with that kind of seniority/longevity, it absolutely is a choice.

Does any other contract have that provision to make retired since amendable date whole?

To me, it sounds like he is hinting to all of us new guys that we should start thinking about being furloughed. The same reason none of us got warm fuzzies listening to PM's update. There needs to be way more transparency on what the company wants the pilot group to look like.

I watched the video and PM is right about scope. It wasn't the priority until the company publicly announced it cost cutting measures. Now everyone is all twitterpated about scope and 4a2c and furloughs and belly freight and declining volumes. Very few of you seem particularly suspicious of the timing and most are content to offer vapid speculation about how this will play out completely disregarding the macro and microeconomic factors that haven't changed since that announcement. You continue to spread the FUD and it is self amplifying. Management is gleefully watching our resolve melt away.


I watched the video twice. PM is where he always was and where they guided us to be. To get a quick deal that fixes retirement. His mission is to get a TA. Not the best TA possible but what HE believes is achievable. Where we are is very much the result of strategy put in place by him and the leadership of this union. Our openers were woefully inadequate and our ask on pay is so far below market rates that any move towards the company position on pay would be UNRATIFAIABLE. I listen to him equivocate, talking about what was and what is, but what we DESERVE is market based pay for pilots. FedEx doesn't get special pilot labor pay concession because they all of a sudden are showing up with their pockets turned out. Especially after announcing a dividend increase and 5 Billion worth of stock buybacks. The part where PM blatantly uses UPS's interim contract pay rates as the metric by which a TA should be measured speaks volumes about where we are. If he's speaking for you then you and I are not aligned. We are divided not by angry rhetoric but by actual principle. He spoke and I am listening and I don't need to read a TA generated by a group willing to offer a substandard contract "that will pass".


Lets face it there's plenty of people in this thread especially the "My NC speaks for me crowd" who will vote for whatever TA is produced. They aren't anomalous either, in fact they are legion. They are what got us the 2015 contract which didn't include retirement improvements and has been used to pick our pockets ever since. Anyone who says otherwise even with the benefit of hindsight is either a management stooge or a troll. We are rapidly marching down that path again and those concerned should continue to speak about it here, elsewhere on social media, and in person. Its pretty clear they are listening. They should be aware well in advance if they cobble together a weak "but look at the total value" TA and come out here to start selling it that they will be met with vocal resistance and their efforts will fail. We aren't their adversaries the people cynically trying to limit our participation in the financial windfall that we facilitated are .

Military retirements should not be considered. Many of us served in the military, but were riffed during the 90's and don't have a military retirement.

What other airline still has an A plan?

This question is irrelevant.

I swear I must have seen a different video than everyone else. PM said the company’s initial pay rate offer was well below UPS, and just passed UPS recently. And he admitted that still wouldn’t ratify. At a previous PUB he subtlety mentioned our initial ask was above new DAL rates.

The amount of vitriol and panic in the current situation is disappointing. Read the TA and vote accordingly. Trying to read between the lines and putting out half-true information isn’t helping anyone.

There is not a snow balls chance in hades that we asked for Delta rates in the initial ask. One of the recent NC updates stated that Delta has changed the game in regards to pay. I do appreciate the comic relief TomAce, we need it in these times.

No you watched the same video and you heard the same language. What you heard "The facts are clear our pilots will not ratify a deal with UPS pay rates in them....and we will continue to march down the RLA path as its necessary to get the pay rates that the pilots will ratify" Ratifiable is not industry leading and when taken with "In conjunction with everything else that's been TA'd". The word conjunction means combined with. If he meant Industry leading pay rates that's clearly not what he said. Continuing to say we didn't even consider the outrageous proposals the company put forth isn't an argument with any merit.

I've seen this movie before and I remember how it ends.

If you want to know the context of the quotes, click the links. It's not that hard. What your past quotes show is your attitude prior to FedEx announcing the changes they are making and now. When that last survey that you were happy with came out, we were already talking about and were buying up lines. People like to talk about ASL taking our flying and compare 2022 to 2023. How about comparing 2017 or 2018 to 2023. What routes did we fly prior to acquiring TNT? How do you know that ASL is taking our historical flying, by taking a snapshot of a year or two? You and others obviously thought that COVID was the new norm and not an anomaly. You came here because you didn't really have another choice. Now, YOU are trying to divide the crew force by pitting junior vs senior because you regret your choices. Your comment about those retiring now shows your true character.