To the nc:
06-23-2023 | 11:23 AM
#51
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,371
Likes: 12
Not much if we take the first offer without pushing back. The company negotiates like a sociopath, whereas the pilot group are more like obedient Christians, or loyal troops with old fashioned values like hard work, honesty! The corporate leadership and government betrayed the social contract decades ago.
We didn't take the first offer.....that's why it took so long since we started negotiation....used to be "Focused offsite negotiation" was where the company would show at the hotel....drop off a list of their demands with a truly horrendous proposal and leave the five or so days of scheduled negotiations without telling someone and not be interested in what we had to say.
In this case, I think we gave our negotiators enough street cred where the company had to negotiate.....you may think "its not enough"...but its ridiculous to say Neg committee didn't do their job and just take the first deal that came across the table.....
06-23-2023 | 12:50 PM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
We didn't take the first offer.....that's why it took so long since we started negotiation....used to be "Focused offsite negotiation" was where the company would show at the hotel....drop off a list of their demands with a truly horrendous proposal and leave the five or so days of scheduled negotiations without telling someone and not be interested in what we had to say.
In this case, I think we gave our negotiators enough street cred where the company had to negotiate.....you may think "its not enough"...but its ridiculous to say Neg committee didn't do their job and just take the first deal that came across the table.....
In this case, I think we gave our negotiators enough street cred where the company had to negotiate.....you may think "its not enough"...but its ridiculous to say Neg committee didn't do their job and just take the first deal that came across the table.....
06-23-2023 | 03:19 PM
#53
Line Holder
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 1,371
Likes: 12
That is a patently asinine statement. The MEC was aware of all the sections as they were TA'd...The negotiating committee works at the behest of the MEC....its obvious you are beyond reasonable discussion and have no desire to discuss this reasonably
Thought I would check to see if I had a PM to see if someone wanted to meet and speak reasonably....there were no takers.
Ciao
Thought I would check to see if I had a PM to see if someone wanted to meet and speak reasonably....there were no takers.
Ciao
06-23-2023 | 03:43 PM
#54
Banned
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
That is a patently asinine statement. The MEC was aware of all the sections as they were TA'd...The negotiating committee works at the behest of the MEC....its obvious you are beyond reasonable discussion and have no desire to discuss this reasonably
Thought I would check to see if I had a PM to see if someone wanted to meet and speak reasonably....there were no takers.
Ciao
Thought I would check to see if I had a PM to see if someone wanted to meet and speak reasonably....there were no takers.
Ciao
06-23-2023 | 04:28 PM
#55
Banned
Joined: Aug 2019
Posts: 1,244
Likes: 0
I’m certain that guys are just dying to listen to your blabber on the phone. there’s nothing you can say that overrides the language in the TA, and if that language is good enough for you, great. lets hope you’re in the minority. and that everyone sitting on the fence or too lazy to read the TA, let’s hope they listen this time to the dissenters.
06-24-2023 | 07:15 AM
#56
Thread Starter
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,097
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Did you go to a roadshow?.....Personally I think other demographics make out a little better than me....I can't retire with full pension now and run.....not enough time here to make a serious dent with cash balance plan....the only thing in this for me is Pay rate and increased A fund eventually..
You never answered my question...I'm just curious....have you gone to a roadshow yet?...
You never answered my question...I'm just curious....have you gone to a roadshow yet?...
I like reading the TA with my own eyes and interpreting through the experience of "how will the company abuse this new language like they did in 2015?". I like reading the language that could be the contract we are signing and not listening to Pat's interpretation of such language. It is a very biased presentation and you probably know it. But it helps you feel better about voting this in, and that's what matters.
We will never know how much better it could have been had you (among that weak 57%) had the intestinal fortitude to tell the company, and the NC, that we are worth more in 2015, just like we are now. It sucks that we kicked retirement down the road for 3 contracts now, for guys in your demographic who now want the improved retirement at the cost of all other sections of the contract. Hopefully we send this TA back to the NC, so that they are sent back to the line.
06-24-2023 | 07:44 AM
#57
Banned
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 674
Likes: 0
Sadly, I won’t be shocked. I’ve been here long enough to know the intestinal fortitude of this union. To know how easily fdx pilots are swayed by an NC telling them that they left no nickel on the table. To see the selfish greed. The lack of self worth. All the talk but none of the walk, pilots not only literally but figuratively allowing others to carry their bags for them. I learned these things and set off to make a living elsewhere. If this TA passes, I’ll be fine, except on principle. The NC and his cronies gambling with purple pilots jobs by loosening the language in Chapter one. The old guys having enjoyed vaca sell back plus 24, LCA bumps, buying power, etc, so that they can reap now what they failed to sow yesterday, a failure that will fall squarely on the shoulders of our junior pilots.
06-25-2023 | 09:47 AM
#58
On Reserve
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 176
Likes: 6
Slightly more hourly raise would have passed
If the raise in hourly rates was equal to what the percentage raise was for Delta, or AA, and the rest of the TA kept the same concessions, this thing would have passed, I believe. Now, well, l suppose we shall see. If the TA is voted down more improvements will be demanded beside the rate hike.
06-25-2023 | 10:03 AM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 3,201
Likes: 32
From: 4A2FU
If the raise in hourly rates was equal to what the percentage raise was for Delta, or AA, and the rest of the TA kept the same concessions, this thing would have passed, I believe. Now, well, l suppose we shall see. If the TA is voted down more improvements will be demanded beside the rate hike.
06-25-2023 | 11:54 AM
#60
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Joined: May 2016
Posts: 65
Likes: 0
I would argue the younger crowd actually benefits the most. The new increases in the FAE formula don’t overcome the new pension benefits in 25 years. Pair that with three pay rate increases in the next 18 months, 15 to 12 year scale compression and the old guys ain’t getting a bigger piece of the pie compared to the young bucks.
Many in the young crowd are being distracted by company scope propaganda and can’t simply mathematically ask if that scenario actually makes sense. Sometimes publicly traded companies make statements in public to appease shareholders. Show me anything factual that actually backs up any of the doom and gloom scenarios being posted. Don’t waste your time posting the article with the company stating they will not exercise “options”. Delta management used the same scheme to attempt to get less out of them.
We will be the biggest laughingstock in the industry if we turn this down and gut our retirement to chase unachievable Scope restrictions the company will never agree to. The NMB will be happy to let us spin our wheels for the next 18 months.
Many in the young crowd are being distracted by company scope propaganda and can’t simply mathematically ask if that scenario actually makes sense. Sometimes publicly traded companies make statements in public to appease shareholders. Show me anything factual that actually backs up any of the doom and gloom scenarios being posted. Don’t waste your time posting the article with the company stating they will not exercise “options”. Delta management used the same scheme to attempt to get less out of them.
We will be the biggest laughingstock in the industry if we turn this down and gut our retirement to chase unachievable Scope restrictions the company will never agree to. The NMB will be happy to let us spin our wheels for the next 18 months.
