Just curious why you’d think this? I get that social media is slanted, but I haven’t come across any ‘Yes’ voters out on the line. Then again, I’m pretty junior so my pool of voters is biased.

 

There's a lot money going to the most senior, reference the earlier posts in this thread. And the bottom 500 aren't eligible to vote. That is a big chunk of the voting block there. If this does fail it will be an impressive feat by the NC to figure out a way to screw up that big of a headstart.

 

I still have yet to find anyone who voted yes for the 2015 contract yet that still passed. Wouldn’t surprise me either way, unless it’s very slanted like 80/20 no.

 

I seem to fly with people north of 60% and they have been mostly yes. It’s just anecdotal and Doesn’t mean that’s carries over to the rest of the pilot group.

 

[QUOTE=Westerner;3671081]There's a lot money going to the most senior, reference the earlier posts in this thread.

What money to the senior? You mean the whopping 32,5k/yr or the 11% going to everyone else that takes the MBCBP and everyone who gets the higher pay rates? You just can't even try to be correct or factual. You are just on a, "junior guys are getting screwed" manta.

 

Generally speaking junior fly with junior and senior flys with senior due to seniority bidding. Depending on the audience you fly with then you'll generally get the same response.

Also, if anyone on any social media platform states they voted YES then the hyenas who vote NO will yell, scream, ostracize and degrade anyone who is willing to think for themselves and go against the grain. Those who vote yes sit out of the social media war zone. NO voter social media keyboard warriors and basically the same as liberal political factions who shout down any conservative viewpoints yet fight for first amendment rights. Any opinion other than their own is wrong. The smartest voters, either YES or NO, have done their own analysis without any social media bias and refrained from trying to sway others to their viewpoint to allow others to make their own decision. Perhaps they remember the folks behind each post are also the same folks they have to fly beside some day.

So you'll never get a good read on what's really going to happen until after the results are released.

 

[QUOTE=Stan446;3671153]answer the question, big mouth: how did you get from this TA is a sellout to rigorously defending it? It’s the money to guys like you, so yeah, that money

 

What’s the cost of the 32.5k ?

a lot more than than the 11% of credits being shoved into a mattress

Guess who’s paying for it?

All the junior guys getting bumped for training and making less for AVA and making less for vacation buyback etc

 

[QUOTE=Stan446;3671153]I'm a seniorish guy and I will retire under the new contract whenever it is signed. The "whopping 32.5k" is only an inflation adjusted number in 2027 from our last pay raise. There is not an "improvement" to the A plan in this contract only an inflation adjustment. True it is better than no improvement, but at a bare minimum it should be tied to inflation going forward. The A plan number really should have been indexed back to 2015 when we last got "any" retirement improvement (9% B). If you CPI-U index back to 2015 and look out to 2027 then the min A plan number should be apx 180.

The MBCBP only "looks" possible because they are using 6.5% ROI which sounds pretty inflated to me and taking all calculation out to age 65. The company is on the hook to "make whole" any losses when a pilot wants to withdraw. We are allowed to withdraw the 33K per year (max number) once you reach 59.5. There is no way the company will ever want to pay up in order to make pilots whole. It is a lot more prudent for the company to "ensure" the funds are invested to never lose capital. They don't care what the returns will be only that the accounts don't go below the capital amount. If you invest to protect capital, like all of us approaching retirement start to do, you will start getting much lower ROI. 6.5 is a pipe dream. IF 6.5 was truely possible, then ALPA would have trotted out 5-10 different examples from other MBCBPs at various companies to show how their returns are stacking up. There are no examples. No actual fact based numbers. Just we feel "strongly." The MBCBP is not a complete pile of pancakes as at least there's an 11% verses variable. But feel free to grab a spreadsheet and put in an age 35 new hire and calculate their balance in 25 years. It's just math and the number you will get is not what the union keeps putting up. In my investing lifetime we have had 4 cases of 40% declines in the stock market. You know they will continue to occur going forward. There is big threat of decline to balance against ROI.

All of our retirement calculations MUST assume the pilot retires at age 60. Sell me that. Trying to sell me something at age 65 is not what our union should focus on. If any of us decide to work past 60 then that's our decision, but we should be able to "achieve" contractual retirement at age 60 with 25 years of service. If we work past 60 then our annuity "costs" to the plan will be less as our life expectancy will be shorter. I'd prefer to see our A plan also adjust for working past 65 as a bonus. If the annuity expense to purchase at age 60 with 180K costs the retirement fund apx $2M to purchase, then that same $2M should continue to be your annuity "cost" if you work past 60. At age 65 a $2M will buy a much larger per year annuity. Maybe now $215.

I've said it before and it's one of my mantras with contracts. My Dad did 35 years and he has always told me, each contract is a chance to make the career better for those that are just starting. You don't sell yourself out, but never vote for a contract that make the profession worse for those that come behind. Those that came before you ensured that you had a great career. Protect those that are just starting their career and your compensation will take care of itself.

 

How do you approach them with the question. I’m guessing someone with a no lanyard on (not saying you do) isnt going to get a bunch of admitted yes voters, for the sake of CRM (thank god). I’ve flown with 2 no voters out of 10 pilots in the past month. None of them know how I voted.