Nothing on the NC resignations
07-31-2023, 08:34 AM
#72
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
Our leverage certainly has changed, and not for the better in the immediate future. The strike vote was leverage when the NMB indicated that the company wasn't being reasonable. Now, with recalls, new polling, opening new sections etc..., that vote holds little threat. 24 months from now, maybe that vote will regain the leverage it had, but for now, we continue to be our own worst enemies.
Mgmt needs to consider costs...and revenue. Profit is a function of BOTH.
With all that said, what historical data do you have that a failed TA will take 24 months to renegotiate? How long did Delta and Southwest take in 2015/2016? How long did United take in 2022/2023? Were their TA 2.0s improvements?
We understand pilots don't like uncertainty, but neither do managers, or customers. Everyone has a vested interest in negotiating a satisfactory TA within a reasonable amount of time. Peak comes twice in the next 17 months!
There's multiple ways our union leadership and Fedex management can play this out. Both will need to decide the amount of uncertainty they want to live with in the mean time. Giddy Up!
In Transparency, Integrity and Unity (for Everyone),
DLax
07-31-2023, 09:36 AM
#73
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2012
Position: Two Wheeler FrontSeat
Posts: 1,162
nice shot, bro. I’m a “regional puke” that voted no but I’ve been here 7 years. A lot of us that knows what it means to not be a yes man, voted no. No need to try and throw rocks, buddy. I’m sure a lot of your military bubbas were also hired amongst the “pukes” and also voted no.
07-31-2023, 09:39 AM
#74
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,199
Your question has been answered repeatedly you just don't accept the answer. So you asking the question again is entirely rhetorical. We have the same leverage we had in April of this year when we authorized a strike by 99%. Some time subsequently the company was said to move 83% in our direction on the remaining open sections pay duration and amenable payment. Our leverage has not changed since then. There is no "new" leverage needed.
A negotiation can be many different things but if you want to win limiting your asks and expressing a fear of loss will undermine your efforts.
TA1 was not a win. It was a low watermark in a long history of giving away things we like to get things we mght like better. It might feel like a win but it's really attrition.
It's pretty clear that the Company and the Union leadership are dumbfounded. We have a history of approving TAs and now we haven't and it appears they're not quite sure what to do. They could have offered something better but why do that when voting has historically been a mere formality.
Its their move now.
A negotiation can be many different things but if you want to win limiting your asks and expressing a fear of loss will undermine your efforts.
TA1 was not a win. It was a low watermark in a long history of giving away things we like to get things we mght like better. It might feel like a win but it's really attrition.
It's pretty clear that the Company and the Union leadership are dumbfounded. We have a history of approving TAs and now we haven't and it appears they're not quite sure what to do. They could have offered something better but why do that when voting has historically been a mere formality.
Its their move now.
I think you’re also probably right that the company is dumbfounded. It can’t believe its good fortune. Every single day it doesn’t have to pay the higher pay rates it agreed to is a win. For it. And every single guy who retires under the old pension is an even bigger win. For it. There is nothing the company is enjoying more, than us stumbling around trying to get our act together before we return to the negotiating table with brand new negotiators armed with nothing new to offer than a request for more.
TA1 was clearly not the win a majority of our pilots were looking for, but unless something changes, rejecting it may prove to be the biggest self-own in ALPA history. As you point out, our leverage hasn’t changed since our 99% vote to authorize a strike. That was a show of unity. A 57/43 rejection of a TA our MEC approved by a vote of 13-1 is a show of disunity. Thats how we will start our next negotiation cycle. Ouch. And the pain only increases if we slip into 4a2b or 4a2c, and/or age 67 passes.
07-31-2023, 09:51 AM
#75
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2013
Posts: 633
The great thing about internet threads is anyone can go back and read everything that was said in them. You should probably do that. The first person to say we have no new leverage is you. On that point, I’m afraid we agree. I’ve been hoping I’m just missing something, because returning to the negotiating table after signing an agreement, but having nothing new to offer in return isn’t a great negotiating strategy. But aside from Fr8Master, no one has offered any insight into any new arrows in our negotiating quiver.
I think you’re also probably right that the company is dumbfounded. It can’t believe its good fortune. Every single day it doesn’t have to pay the higher pay rates it agreed to is a win. For it. And every single guy who retires under the old pension is an even bigger win. For it. There is nothing the company is enjoying more, than us stumbling around trying to get our act together before we return to the negotiating table with brand new negotiators armed with nothing new to offer than a request for more.
TA1 was clearly not the win a majority of our pilots were looking for, but unless something changes, rejecting it may prove to be the biggest self-own in ALPA history. As you point out, our leverage hasn’t changed since our 99% vote to authorize a strike. That was a show of unity. A 57/43 rejection of a TA our MEC approved by a vote of 13-1 is a show of disunity. Thats how we will start our next negotiation cycle. Ouch. And the pain only increases if we slip into 4a2b or 4a2c, and/or age 67 passes.
I think you’re also probably right that the company is dumbfounded. It can’t believe its good fortune. Every single day it doesn’t have to pay the higher pay rates it agreed to is a win. For it. And every single guy who retires under the old pension is an even bigger win. For it. There is nothing the company is enjoying more, than us stumbling around trying to get our act together before we return to the negotiating table with brand new negotiators armed with nothing new to offer than a request for more.
TA1 was clearly not the win a majority of our pilots were looking for, but unless something changes, rejecting it may prove to be the biggest self-own in ALPA history. As you point out, our leverage hasn’t changed since our 99% vote to authorize a strike. That was a show of unity. A 57/43 rejection of a TA our MEC approved by a vote of 13-1 is a show of disunity. Thats how we will start our next negotiation cycle. Ouch. And the pain only increases if we slip into 4a2b or 4a2c, and/or age 67 passes.
you can cry and cry all you want, no one is giving you your binky back. it was a $hit binky anyways. now buck up, wipe them tears, and lets get you something worth crying over.
07-31-2023, 10:01 AM
#76
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2021
Posts: 447
The great thing about internet threads is anyone can go back and read everything that was said in them. You should probably do that. The first person to say we have no new leverage is you. On that point, I’m afraid we agree. I’ve been hoping I’m just missing something, because returning to the negotiating table after signing an agreement, but having nothing new to offer in return isn’t a great negotiating strategy. But aside from Fr8Master, no one has offered any insight into any new arrows in our negotiating quiver.
I think you’re also probably right that the company is dumbfounded. It can’t believe its good fortune. Every single day it doesn’t have to pay the higher pay rates it agreed to is a win. For it. And every single guy who retires under the old pension is an even bigger win. For it. There is nothing the company is enjoying more, than us stumbling around trying to get our act together before we return to the negotiating table with brand new negotiators armed with nothing new to offer than a request for more.
TA1 was clearly not the win a majority of our pilots were looking for, but unless something changes, rejecting it may prove to be the biggest self-own in ALPA history. As you point out, our leverage hasn’t changed since our 99% vote to authorize a strike. That was a show of unity. A 57/43 rejection of a TA our MEC approved by a vote of 13-1 is a show of disunity. Thats how we will start our next negotiation cycle. Ouch. And the pain only increases if we slip into 4a2b or 4a2c, and/or age 67 passes.
I think you’re also probably right that the company is dumbfounded. It can’t believe its good fortune. Every single day it doesn’t have to pay the higher pay rates it agreed to is a win. For it. And every single guy who retires under the old pension is an even bigger win. For it. There is nothing the company is enjoying more, than us stumbling around trying to get our act together before we return to the negotiating table with brand new negotiators armed with nothing new to offer than a request for more.
TA1 was clearly not the win a majority of our pilots were looking for, but unless something changes, rejecting it may prove to be the biggest self-own in ALPA history. As you point out, our leverage hasn’t changed since our 99% vote to authorize a strike. That was a show of unity. A 57/43 rejection of a TA our MEC approved by a vote of 13-1 is a show of disunity. Thats how we will start our next negotiation cycle. Ouch. And the pain only increases if we slip into 4a2b or 4a2c, and/or age 67 passes.
The point is they did not offer enough and our NC knew it. So did the MEC, that is why they are blaming the crew force instead of themselves. (did we reject, or did they fail?).
The new reps will be required to operate with more transparency and allow more feedback, which will be refreshing.
The sooner we select our new reps, MEC and NC the sooner we can resurvey and organize our plans. Together we win.
07-31-2023, 10:10 AM
#77
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,199
No better way to signal you’re out of ideas and have no clue what to do next than lob personal insults. Seems to be our strategy at this point. Maybe the NC will try that when negotiations resume. It seems to be all we have left.
07-31-2023, 10:20 AM
#78
Aspiring PSA Captain
Joined APC: Sep 2020
Posts: 840
Sorry about your near-term retirement plans. The rest of us are career oriented.
07-31-2023, 10:23 AM
#79
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2007
Position: Gear Monkey
Posts: 3,193
The point is they did not offer enough and our NC knew it. So did the MEC, that is why they are blaming the crew force instead of themselves. (did we reject, or did they fail?).
The new reps will be required to operate with more transparency and allow more feedback, which will be refreshing.
The sooner we select our new reps, MEC and NC the sooner we can resurvey and organize our plans. Together we win.
The new reps will be required to operate with more transparency and allow more feedback, which will be refreshing.
The sooner we select our new reps, MEC and NC the sooner we can resurvey and organize our plans. Together we win.
In Transparency, Integrity & Unity (for Everyone),
DLax
07-31-2023, 10:25 AM
#80
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,199
The point is they did not offer enough and our NC knew it. So did the MEC, that is why they are blaming the crew force instead of themselves. (did we reject, or did they fail?).
The new reps will be required to operate with more transparency and allow more feedback, which will be refreshing.
The sooner we select our new reps, MEC and NC the sooner we can resurvey and organize our plans. Together we win.
The new reps will be required to operate with more transparency and allow more feedback, which will be refreshing.
The sooner we select our new reps, MEC and NC the sooner we can resurvey and organize our plans. Together we win.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
