Originally Posted by JustInFacts

The same could be said about you and your posts always trying to blame the pilots who have been here for 10+ years for your own woes. Did he contribute to the problem? Hemaybedid!

Originally Posted by hemaybedid

Make no mistake, I am blaming you and those here 10+ years for our woes. It is pitiful. But the difference is I am willing to work with you, and I understand how you were truly and acceptingly ****ed, and continue to turn it on us and not the offender. All we are asking of you, is to turn it on the offender.

Originally Posted by JustInFacts

So, here is some more added context. Our current negotiating chairman was a big part, if not leading in 3 of our 4 contracts. So saying that the company has only been negotiating with themselves is slamming our current NC. Yeah, that's unity for you.

When it comes to teaching us how to be a union, of all the DP's that are voluntarily picked up, 80% of those are by pilots that were not able to vote on contract 2015. Is that teaching us how to be a union?

Originally Posted by hemaybedid

I would like to add a little context. We are negotiating with a company that has been negotiating with itself for well over 20 years. They sat down at the table and gave the talking points to themselves (FedEx ALPA), and FedEx ALPA attempted to scare everyone into voting yes. Their biggest and most successful selling points have always been a big payoff to those near retirement. And that is why the mantra of “what are you willing to give up for that” has always been a part of this place.

The funny thing is, even when we started negotiations early in 2021, the industry leading pay our “MEC” promised us wasn’t promised by them. It was promised by their company handlers. They didn’t have the foresight to see how far off they would be. And yet they persist. FedEx pilots had sat on top of their brothers and sisters so long they couldn’t imagine a world where the industry righted itself. And then the industry proved FedEx pilots had been working for a fraction of what they were worth and **** work rules for decades. And when you work for a company that’d never do that, you lose decades of industry standard language to protect you. But at least you had W-2’s to lord over furloughed friends heads.

At this point, unfortunately, we are in a position where we have to teach FedEx how to have a union. That is never an easy process. But since they haven’t had to learn until now. Game on.

Originally Posted by Merle Haggard

This ^^^ is fact. For any of you who think JD is some sort of George Patton of negotiations, need I remind you that Fred and Fred's father were absolutely famous for their skills at union busting, union avoidance, and union manipulation. It's not a coincidence that less than 1% of FDX (us) is unionized. We can win this.

Originally Posted by ShankSinatra

Well meaning guys and gals have trouble accepting the union is not what they fundamentally believe it is. It's refreshing to see an awakening taking place, seemingly en masse. What the company is doing is not surprising and, frankly, should be expected. What the union IS NOT doing should be shocking to everyone. Some might even call it "unconscionable."

Sorry to ride your coat tails, Merle... but the point you, hemaybedid, and so many others are making is paramount IMHO. Voting down TA1 as a huge first step and I commend this pilot group for that action... but the real battle lies ahead. Anyway, had to jump on the bandwagon and yes, here's to winning this thing!

Originally Posted by Callsignfrog

what’s also shocking is what the pilot group is not doing to unify against what’s going on.

as many have said, unifying is key to support negotiations (and between negotiations for that matter).

froggy dog

Originally Posted by JustInFacts

Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions.

In our first two contracts, it was stated that this provision was to prevent or delay a furlough. The mins were set to 48/60. That was it. No trigger, no exit parameters, no limits between the high and low lines.

The last time we entered 4a2b, we grieved it and the company got a partial win and so did we. The arbitrator ruled that the company was allowed to enter 4a2c, but they also ruled that there should be triggers and an exit parameter. They stated that if we couldn't come to an agreement with each other, then they would rule on those parameters. Hence, the SAM. We also added the line value differences fleet wide and a max pay provision because we had pilots that were MD FO's that were displaced to 72 SO now making 50 hours a month while 777 pilots and some MD pilots were making 70+ hours in a typical 4 week month. We codified the agreement in 2015. If the RLG hits certain parameters, they take 1 or 2 R days off your calendar. In 2020, pilots at other airlines were looking at something to reduce guarantees to avoid a furlough and were interested in our 4a2b/c. Then the government helped them out.

Yes, we either need to make it harder for the company to indiscriminately change flying, draft, and limits such as a mandatory buy up to average BLG in the highest paying bid pack if entering 4a2c and an easier exit such as 1 month above the trigger that caused the entry and a reset of at least 6 months before the trigger counter can start again. Otherwise, we should scrap the whole idea.