4a2c Overtime
07-21-2025 | 05:25 AM
#11
On Reserve
Joined: Nov 2011
Posts: 165
Likes: 2
From: F/O
Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions.
In our first two contracts, it was stated that this provision was to prevent or delay a furlough. The mins were set to 48/60. That was it. No trigger, no exit parameters, no limits between the high and low lines.
The last time we entered 4a2b, we grieved it and the company got a partial win and so did we. The arbitrator ruled that the company was allowed to enter 4a2c, but they also ruled that there should be triggers and an exit parameter. They stated that if we couldn't come to an agreement with each other, then they would rule on those parameters. Hence, the SAM. We also added the line value differences fleet wide and a max pay provision because we had pilots that were MD FO's that were displaced to 72 SO now making 50 hours a month while 777 pilots and some MD pilots were making 70+ hours in a typical 4 week month. We codified the agreement in 2015. If the RLG hits certain parameters, they take 1 or 2 R days off your calendar. In 2020, pilots at other airlines were looking at something to reduce guarantees to avoid a furlough and were interested in our 4a2b/c. Then the government helped them out.
Yes, we either need to make it harder for the company to indiscriminately change flying, draft, and limits such as a mandatory buy up to average BLG in the highest paying bid pack if entering 4a2c and an easier exit such as 1 month above the trigger that caused the entry and a reset of at least 6 months before the trigger counter can start again. Otherwise, we should scrap the whole idea.
In our first two contracts, it was stated that this provision was to prevent or delay a furlough. The mins were set to 48/60. That was it. No trigger, no exit parameters, no limits between the high and low lines.
The last time we entered 4a2b, we grieved it and the company got a partial win and so did we. The arbitrator ruled that the company was allowed to enter 4a2c, but they also ruled that there should be triggers and an exit parameter. They stated that if we couldn't come to an agreement with each other, then they would rule on those parameters. Hence, the SAM. We also added the line value differences fleet wide and a max pay provision because we had pilots that were MD FO's that were displaced to 72 SO now making 50 hours a month while 777 pilots and some MD pilots were making 70+ hours in a typical 4 week month. We codified the agreement in 2015. If the RLG hits certain parameters, they take 1 or 2 R days off your calendar. In 2020, pilots at other airlines were looking at something to reduce guarantees to avoid a furlough and were interested in our 4a2b/c. Then the government helped them out.
Yes, we either need to make it harder for the company to indiscriminately change flying, draft, and limits such as a mandatory buy up to average BLG in the highest paying bid pack if entering 4a2c and an easier exit such as 1 month above the trigger that caused the entry and a reset of at least 6 months before the trigger counter can start again. Otherwise, we should scrap the whole idea.
07-21-2025 | 06:22 AM
#12
Line Holder
Joined: Jun 2018
Posts: 726
Likes: 33
From: 767 CA
What we're experiencing is the hangover from the good times the company had during COVID. Unfortunately, it was the company that got to enjoy being drunk and we're stuck being the ones paying for it. The company ate, drank, got fat, dumb, and happy. Everything that they did in excess led to DRIVE, One FedEx, and Network 2.0.
07-21-2025 | 10:30 AM
#17
On Reserve
Joined: Feb 2015
Posts: 77
Likes: 42
From: FO
Originally Posted by Thrust Hold;[url=tel:3930326
3930326[/url]]What we're experiencing is the hangover from the good times the company had during COVID. Unfortunately, it was the company that got to enjoy being drunk and we're stuck being the ones paying for it. The company ate, drank, got fat, dumb, and happy. Everything that they did in excess led to DRIVE, One FedEx, and Network 2.0.
I see it a bit differently. The company used covid to their advantage in a few ways:
1) They made a lot of money because all of a sudden people couldn’t or didn’t want to leave their house, so volumes skyrocketed, and hence revenue and profit as well.
2) They had to operate in an environment that was extremely dynamic and with multiple constraints. The schedulers and network planners learned how to use revisions, extensions, and draft to maximize the output of the crew force. Then as things opened back up post-Covid they had a whole new bag of tricks to optimize things. Additionally, they got the benefit of trying these new tricks in a time and situation in which no one really questioned what was going on…in fact most of us were willing participants.
3) Intentionally or not, they were able to over-hire going into a negotiation for a new contract. We’re seeing the fallout from that now.
In fact, I’d claim that it was the crew force at large that got fat dumb and happy. Many of us got addicted to the Covid money, and thought it was was going to last forever. In the process we willingly gave up probably the best bit of leverage we’ve had in the last 20 or so years for short term paychecks.
07-21-2025 | 10:32 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Mar 2018
Posts: 292
Likes: 46
07-21-2025 | 10:56 AM
#19
Thread Starter
On Reserve
Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 83
Likes: 33
Hopefully this helps answer some of your questions.
In our first two contracts, it was stated that this provision was to prevent or delay a furlough. The mins were set to 48/60. That was it. No trigger, no exit parameters, no limits between the high and low lines.
The last time we entered 4a2b, we grieved it and the company got a partial win and so did we. The arbitrator ruled that the company was allowed to enter 4a2c, but they also ruled that there should be triggers and an exit parameter. They stated that if we couldn't come to an agreement with each other, then they would rule on those parameters. Hence, the SAM. We also added the line value differences fleet wide and a max pay provision because we had pilots that were MD FO's that were displaced to 72 SO now making 50 hours a month while 777 pilots and some MD pilots were making 70+ hours in a typical 4 week month. We codified the agreement in 2015. If the RLG hits certain parameters, they take 1 or 2 R days off your calendar. In 2020, pilots at other airlines were looking at something to reduce guarantees to avoid a furlough and were interested in our 4a2b/c. Then the government helped them out.
Yes, we either need to make it harder for the company to indiscriminately change flying, draft, and limits such as a mandatory buy up to average BLG in the highest paying bid pack if entering 4a2c and an easier exit such as 1 month above the trigger that caused the entry and a reset of at least 6 months before the trigger counter can start again. Otherwise, we should scrap the whole idea.
In our first two contracts, it was stated that this provision was to prevent or delay a furlough. The mins were set to 48/60. That was it. No trigger, no exit parameters, no limits between the high and low lines.
The last time we entered 4a2b, we grieved it and the company got a partial win and so did we. The arbitrator ruled that the company was allowed to enter 4a2c, but they also ruled that there should be triggers and an exit parameter. They stated that if we couldn't come to an agreement with each other, then they would rule on those parameters. Hence, the SAM. We also added the line value differences fleet wide and a max pay provision because we had pilots that were MD FO's that were displaced to 72 SO now making 50 hours a month while 777 pilots and some MD pilots were making 70+ hours in a typical 4 week month. We codified the agreement in 2015. If the RLG hits certain parameters, they take 1 or 2 R days off your calendar. In 2020, pilots at other airlines were looking at something to reduce guarantees to avoid a furlough and were interested in our 4a2b/c. Then the government helped them out.
Yes, we either need to make it harder for the company to indiscriminately change flying, draft, and limits such as a mandatory buy up to average BLG in the highest paying bid pack if entering 4a2c and an easier exit such as 1 month above the trigger that caused the entry and a reset of at least 6 months before the trigger counter can start again. Otherwise, we should scrap the whole idea.
Thank you friend for a thoughtful response. So, the “SAM” was a Frankenstein created by the mediator? Not our Union or FedEx? Do you (or anyone else around for this) know how this was was justified? There must have been some rationale to use a “SAM” instead of just hours flown? HOURS FLOWN would be entirely measurable and objective. In the case (here we are) that the Company was being cute, and their Independent Contractors were enabling them, HOURS FLOWN would potentially avoid the triggers for 4a2, or trigger an exit from 4a2.
It would offer transparency for a provision that benefits the pilot group and the Company, without the ability to be manipulated and abused. Why Frankenstein?
07-21-2025 | 11:01 AM
#20
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Joined: Mar 2023
Posts: 83
Likes: 33
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