You can choose to commute. Obviously, quite a challenge from the U.S. Less of a challenge if you live in SEA, PDX, SFO or LAX. But, if your wife is ok seeing very little of you, you could probably make it work. She'll have a lot of time to study with little distractions from you

Remember that so far, FedEx has never forced a pilot to take a job outside of the lower 48. In the past (and should hold true for the near future), they will call you with an offer similar to "we have a HKG/CGN class date for you on xx date, if you would rather wait for a MEM class date, you will be assigned one in interview order".

If you go to an FDA, it is your choice. Just as it is your choice to commute without the housing allowance, or your choice to move you and your family to HKG/CGN to collect the housing allowance.

So, there are options. The company will not force you to an FDA, you can only go of your own free will. I would say it is probably not in your best interest to take a job with the plans of using legal action to defend your failure to comply with the FDA LOA. An agreement which we ratified as a pilot group, and that we individually read and sign before the move.

Good luck.

 

And compliance with the LOA may or may not meet the companies "flexible" requirements for HKG residence.

 

Does a non-married pilot receive the same HA as someone who is married with kids, if they decide to move to an FDA? Or is the HA dependent on spouse and number of dependents? Thanks.

 

It is the same HA amount. $4700/mo for HKG, $3500/mo for CGN.

 

I agree that it would be in both the pilots' best interest (job security) and the company's best interest (ease of staffing the FDA's) to have some clear guidance given to the pilot group regarding what "relocation" means.

What I was alluding to, is that to take this highly sought-after job, with all the work it takes to get here, and then to willfully not comply with the relocation requirement, while collecting the HA, is a bad plan. If one were caught doing this, after willfully bidding for an FDA, while having the backup plan to use legal defense because of the worker's equal rights regardless of marriage-status... Well, not a wise plan. In that case, better to not take the job as a new-hire.

 

That is true and I was alluding to fact that thinking you were in compliance with the FDA may or may not be enough for you to retain your highly desirable job.

 

Same amount, which is just one of the problems with the company's claim that "business necessity" justifies the disparate treatment of single v. married pilots. It does not appear to be necessary for married pilots to have their spouses living in their domestic domiciles; you can be based in ANC with family living in Florida. MIA-ANC takes as long to jumpseat as ANC-HKG does, under worse conditions, especially if Atlas has space to HKG on one of their plush 747s. But apparently there's something about flying a plane full of boxes to/from CAN that requires your spouse and kids to be sitting in HKG.

FDX wants your family with you in HKG because they need you to take draft to help cover the base. As if your family, stuck in a small apartment in HKG, is going to want to spend another week sitting there without you once you've already flown the trips you bid. And as if there's any legal obligation for you to fly extra trips.

While the membership ratified the LOA, it did not ratify the interpretations of the agreement that have been used to fire the four HKG pilots. Sure, ALPA and the pilots could have done a better job of demanding an answer from the company about whether the intent ofthe LOA was to violate state laws. I.e., with 20:20 hindsight, it would have been a good idea to find out in advance whether, notwithstanding the language in the LOA that says the laws of the US govern the agreement, and also notwithstanding the antidiscrimination language in the CBA that expressly acknowledges additional antidiscrimination laws (e.g. state marital status protections) the company has to comply with, the company intended to treat heterosexual married pilots differently from single pilots and those married to same-sex partners in the states that allow this.

The only way you can legally negotiate away civil rights protection in a labor agreement is if the agreement is very specific about what rights are being surrendered. Nowhere in the CBA or LOA does it say that hetero married pilots agree to do this. So please don't blame the membership for the the company's outrageous actions.

 

I don't want to take the company's stance here, but your argument is flawed. No, spouses aren't required to live in ANC or MEM. However, neither domicile pays a housing allowance. You can bid HKG and live anywhere you choose, you just don't get the additional money. And you are right, they offer the additional money to entice people to move there where the company can get the benefits of having a pilot domicile (coverage of trips).

I agree that rules aren't clearly defined (or defined at all) in regards to what actually qualifies as residency. Why can't a wife have her baby somewhere else? If I lived there, my wife wouldn't want to have a baby in Hong Kong. How often does your spouse have to live there? Can she spend summers in the US? These are the questions that need to be addressed.

 

i have been reading on this forum for a long time. there are lots of interesting rumors, a few good facts, and then a lot of complete bs.
since i have a sponsoree who is in the pool, and whom, like a few others in the pool, has been intimidated by posts on this thread particularly, i thought i'd share what i know, for the benefit of possible new-hires lurking and reading the info on this forum. i'm actually getting help from one of these new-hires-to-be on how to quote on alaskan's post.
firs of all, alaskan, you must be an active fedex pilot right? you don't fly for cathay by chance? hong kong based i assume? if so, i'm sure you're bidding out on this current vacancy bid right? good for you. it seems like you feel your are the victim of your move to hong kong.

not only does it not appear, it is actually exactly that way, which is why you don't bid for an fda, governed by an loa, to go to anchorage.

yes, the something that requires your family to live in hong kong is the fda agreement that you bid for and were awarded, and then you read and signed. don't like it? then don't bid it.

there is no legal obligation to fly extra. your family is in hong kong, whether in a small, medium, or large apartment, out of YOUR CHOOSING. you don't like living there? don't bid it. your family doesn't want to go? don't bid it.

no, i don't blame the membership. however, pilots should be responsible for their actions and act with integrity.
i have been here long enough to see that there is a 3-5% of our group, like at any other airline, which causes trouble for the rest of us. i won't say specifics, but i will say that i have talked with senior union reps and senior managers regarding the hong kong situation. well, surprisingly enough, from both sides, the story that i have heard directly from their mouths is the same: 3 of the pilots terminated were not fulfilling their end of the signed bargain, 1 of them showed a serious lack of judgment, and 1 other took the amnesty and is doing fine. i know that you might want more specifics, if so, go talk directly with your acp/fleet captain, don't believe me, and don't believe what is posted here, get your info directly from managers and union leaders. did you know our union has spent over $1.2 million defending these pilots?
so, get informed. for those of you seeking a job with fedex and considering and fda i will say this: fedex is not the big evil machine that a lot of these guys say it is. it is a great place to work. if you go to an fda and you want the housing allowance, then RELOCATE yourself and your family. don't quote law references about married vs non-married when you are choosing to go. if your spouse needs to come back to the u.s. to take care of a parent, communicate with management. if your child is sick and needs care in the u.s., communicate with management. if your spouse is about to divorce you unless you move back, communicate with management. over my years here i've seen one thing: fedex will work you as much as they possibly can, as long as you communicate. i've experienced it first hand with medical/family issues i needed help with. i've seen friends here get the same help from the company.
and no, i'm not in management.
you know, we've had pilots caught lying about $25 transportation expenses get fired. we've also had many pilots fired for other reasons, who most of the time, get their jobs back. of course, you will be out of luck, if you have LIED, CHEATED, or STOLEN from the company.
new-hires to be, come on over! this is the best aviation job out there. if you are up for an adventure to hong kong or germany, go for it, with nothing to fear. your family can come back to the u.s. for vacation, as can you. what you cannot do, is claim that your family lives there if they actually don't, just to get the allowance. if you do not want to go, you don't have to go, and wait for a class in memphis. don't believe the bs scare tactics you read on here.

 

Golfandfly, why is this so diffcult for you to understand?

If the company only gave the HA to black pilots, would that be OK? How about only paying it to women? Or to Roman Catholics but no one else? No, none of these things would be legal, right? Because none of these attributes has anything to do with what's supposed to be happening in the cockpit. You don't need to be black, female, or RC to fly well. You don't need your spouse and kids living in HKG or any other domicile, either. It's none of FDX's business if married couples choose to live apart, any more than it's the company's business if its unmarried pilots shack up.

If the company actually had a valid reason for wanting its pilots' "center of gravity" (RT-speak) in HKG, it would have moved the same-sex spouses (legally married in their state) of its gay pilots to HKG. It would also have moved pilots' long-term boyfriends and girlfriends. It would not force spouses who are estranged to go to HKG.

In my state it is ILLEGAL to give some employees as benefit -- and $4500/mo is a real benefit -- that you don't give others, merely based on the other employees' race, gender, religion, national origin, age (over 40), AND MARITAL STATUS. Unless marital status is an essential element of the job. Which it is not for a pilot.

Get it now?

(BTW, one of the fired HKG pilots has a husband, so please stop assuming the spouses in question are women. Your Memphis-centric thinking is showing. )