So you're saying you didn't receive passover pay when a new hire was hired directly into a seat you held on a preceding bid? That seems crazy.... So for those that held widebody seats on this last bid coming from the 757 FO seat, there will be no passover pay for a minimum of a year (after the new hires finish probation)? I can't think that was the intent of the language, but I'm sure that's how the company would like to interpret it!

What??

Passover pay isn't figured on a Junior Pilots pay rate.

It is figured on the Pay rate of the Seat/Equipment of the Aircraft the more Junior Pilot activated into.

That is absolutely incorrect. Plus, no new hires went into the 777 in 2011. They did later on, but not in 2011.

No, the company pays when they hire people into the widebodies.

From the contract:

Passover Pay Due To Junior Pilot’s Early Activation
In case of a junior pilot’s activation to a higher paying position out of seniority order, every senior pilot who meets the following prerequisites shall be paid as if he had activated in that higher paying position (passover pay):
the junior pilot and the senior pilot(s) hold an award for the same crew position; and
the junior pilot’s award is from the same posting as the senior pilot’s award or from a subsequent posting; and
the Company chooses to activate the junior pilot prior to the senior pilot(s) and the junior pilot’s activation delays the training and activation of the senior pilot(s).

So it has everything to do with activation of the junior dude. Once a new hire activates in the right seat of the 777 the company will start paying a ton of passover pay.

But really...at this point, the passover pay is peanuts to the company. They are spending billions on buying new companies...a few thousand on the workers is nothing.

Contract NOW!

Hmmm...

I was right with you, until you posted that excerpt from the CBA. It had been a while since I've read that part.

Now, I'm thinking... no passover pay.

From 05 Aug 15 until 06 Jan 16, the only M77F's going through training are "NEW HIRE PILOT #1/2."

I think the company's will argue (successfully, unfortunately) that putting the new hires in the 777 did not delay any of our FO's activation, since when the training letter came out they have the date they were assigned. Their training was not delayed.

Now the argument I would make if I was a FO with one of those 2016 training slots would be "I'd be going to training but for the fact you hired people off the street and put them in class before me, so I was in fact 'delayed'."

I see the argument either way... hopefully it'll go the in favor of our guys, but then again... we all know how that goes.

I think the new-hire into my seat issue has been argued and resolved many times, in our favor. It was why Mr PC had such a rage to "re-align" the seniority list - twice!

As for the delay - all it takes is ONE shuffle of the training letter, and then you are delayed. Just ONE new-hire in front of you, and passover starts. They have already "adjusted" the training letter, so I have heard.

In any case, our guys who are sitting A reserve in the right seat of the 757 and seeing guys get trained behind them in the 777 will at least see passover once that new-hire checks out. Well, as long as they were smart and bid the 777. If not, then enjoy DSM!

Ok so if it is correct that new hires being assigned can trigger Pass over Pay....When the new hires are activated in the 777 and someone is due pass over pay, how do they get their pay adjusted? Or is it automatically changed to the WB rate?

Should be automatic, trust but verify.

Quoting the contract is proof of nothing. Do the still have the little scales of injustice on the company version of the contract?

Quick question. Out curiosity, do you happen to know how often they pull apps to review? Is it periodically or is there a constant reviewing of apps? Thanks!

I thought somebody on here posted some good info about new hires not creating passover pay since there were unfilled seats in several W/B postings. Would be nice if our association would also clear this up...if they did, I missed it.