MEC Vote 10-4 to approve-Similar to DAL MEC
08-30-2015 | 05:24 PM
#161
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 14
From: Tool-Box, old man
I am a former military guy, and one of the toughest things to teach an all fangs no forehead fighter pilot is knowing when to engage and when to disengage. There are some missions that are so important that you have to be willing to lose everything. Other missions, not so much. Fortunately, lives aren't at stake with our TA. But QOL is. So is this one of those fights where we should go to the merge no matter what the cost, or should we take a second to consider where we really stand after the initial engagement? Right now I see a bunch of fired up guys with their fangs out heading in full AB toward an established furball. They have only half a picture and don't care to hear any more. All they want is a kill, because dammit, they deserve it. In my experience, that almost never ends well.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
Keep the faith,
fbh
08-30-2015 | 05:24 PM
#162
"blue collar thug"!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: A proponent of...
I am a former military guy, and one of the toughest things to teach an all fangs no forehead fighter pilot is knowing when to engage and when to disengage. There are some missions that are so important that you have to be willing to lose everything. Other missions, not so much. Fortunately, lives aren't at stake with our TA. But QOL is. So is this one of those fights where we should go to the merge no matter what the cost, or should we take a second to consider where we really stand after the initial engagement? Right now I see a bunch of fired up guys with their fangs out heading in full AB toward an established furball. They have only half a picture and don't care to hear any more. All they want is a kill, because dammit, they deserve it. In my experience, that almost never ends well.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
Maybe they are, maybe they arent. Nobody knows. And I know I havent seen the whole TA or a road show yet. But the lack of a decent retirement bump and a decent pay raise (not COLA) is enough for me to say no.
08-30-2015 | 05:39 PM
#163
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,201
Likes: 0
Since when is a no vote the same as quitting? I'm just saying, if you think you are worth more than that this TA is offering, if you think your efforts, which help generate some of the highest revenues of any air carrier, are worth more, then let management know by voting no. If enough people feel that way, then it is up to management to figure out how to deal with that problem. If you feel that this is what you are worth, then vote yes. Me, personally, I feel that I am worth more. But that's just me.
08-30-2015 | 05:41 PM
#164
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Counting down the bid packs
You might want to check this out:
v.
If a pilot scheduled for a nonstop deadhead over 16 hours
on duty, who is not booked in first class, deviates from the
scheduled flight in order to obtain first class on another
carrier, the following shall apply:
(a)
the pilot shall include with his deviation expense report
an e-mail from corporate travel indicating that first class
was not available on the originally scheduled flight at
the time the booking was made; and
(b)
the provision of the e-mail in Section 8.C.3.a.v.(a)
(the preceding paragraph) shall entitle the pilot to be
reimbursed for his deviation ticket up to the full fare
first class cost of a direct, nonstop deviation flight on
the planned routing, regardless of his deviation bank
value.
Intent: This rule is designed to put the pilot in excellent
position to obtain first class on long deadheads. The change
in priority greatly increases the chance that the pilot will be
booked in first class at the outset. If that does not occur, and
the pilot wishes to deviate so that he can find first class on
another carrier, provision is made to allow that even if the
accepted fare for the ticket that was planned is below the
actual cost of the first class ticket he buys. This provision
is intended for use only for conventional, scheduled airline
travel, not, for example, the Concorde, Lear jet, or other
specialty air travel. This rule does not apply to emergency
replacements under Section 12.D.1.e., nor does it permit
an increase in the deviation bank beyond that necessary to
pay for the deviation ticket.
With respect to the e-mail notification from Corporate
Travel, Corporate travel will only know to send an e-mail
indicating the unavailability of first class to the pilot who
was originally awarded the trip. If a pilot receives the trip
later in the bid period (e.g., due to the original pilot going
sick, etc.,), then the pilot who flies the trip will have to
request the e-mail from Corporate Travel if, at the time
Corporate Travel is attempting to book his ticket, first class
is not available. This only applies to deadheads originally
scheduled over 16 hours under the provisions of this rule.
The pilot should not ask Corporate Travel for an e-mail in
any other situation in which first class is authorized, but
cannot be booked due to availability.
Example: A pilot is booked on United to HKG. There
is no seating for either discounted first class or full fare
first class, so Corporate Travel books the pilot in business
class with a reservation to upgrade to first class contingent
upon availability. The accepted fare for the discounted first
class was $1500, which is the amount the pilot’s deviation
Sec. 8.C.3.a. (continued)
February 28, 2011
8-10
bank is credited with per Section 8.A.4.c.v. Corporate travel
sends the pilot an e-mail indicating that first class could not
be booked on his deadhead flight over 16 hours. The pilot
deviates, using a full fare first class ticket on a direct flight
on Northwest, which costs $2300.
The pilot’s total deviation bank for the month normally
would be $2,500 ($1,000 for other tickets, and $1,500 for
the UA flight to HKG). Assume that the pilot has spent a
total of $3,000 ($2,300 for the NW flight to HKG, and $700
for other travel). When reconciling his deviation expenses,
the pilot includes a copy of the Corporate Travel e-mail
indicating that first class could not be booked on the UA
flight to HKG. This e-mail indicates to the travel auditors
to increase the deviation bank by $800 in order to pay the
NW flight to HKG. This essentially pays the NW deviation
flight as a separate transaction, and the remainder of the
pilot’s deviation expenses are reconciled against a bank
of $1,000 (the original bank less the planned UA ticket
to HKG). Consequently, if the pilot had spent a total of
$3,400 ($2,300 for the NW ticket and $1,100 for other
deviation expenses), $100 of those expenses would not be
reimbursed, and must be paid by the pilot, just like in the
normal situation.
v.
If a pilot scheduled for a nonstop deadhead over 16 hours
on duty, who is not booked in first class, deviates from the
scheduled flight in order to obtain first class on another
carrier, the following shall apply:
(a)
the pilot shall include with his deviation expense report
an e-mail from corporate travel indicating that first class
was not available on the originally scheduled flight at
the time the booking was made; and
(b)
the provision of the e-mail in Section 8.C.3.a.v.(a)
(the preceding paragraph) shall entitle the pilot to be
reimbursed for his deviation ticket up to the full fare
first class cost of a direct, nonstop deviation flight on
the planned routing, regardless of his deviation bank
value.
Intent: This rule is designed to put the pilot in excellent
position to obtain first class on long deadheads. The change
in priority greatly increases the chance that the pilot will be
booked in first class at the outset. If that does not occur, and
the pilot wishes to deviate so that he can find first class on
another carrier, provision is made to allow that even if the
accepted fare for the ticket that was planned is below the
actual cost of the first class ticket he buys. This provision
is intended for use only for conventional, scheduled airline
travel, not, for example, the Concorde, Lear jet, or other
specialty air travel. This rule does not apply to emergency
replacements under Section 12.D.1.e., nor does it permit
an increase in the deviation bank beyond that necessary to
pay for the deviation ticket.
With respect to the e-mail notification from Corporate
Travel, Corporate travel will only know to send an e-mail
indicating the unavailability of first class to the pilot who
was originally awarded the trip. If a pilot receives the trip
later in the bid period (e.g., due to the original pilot going
sick, etc.,), then the pilot who flies the trip will have to
request the e-mail from Corporate Travel if, at the time
Corporate Travel is attempting to book his ticket, first class
is not available. This only applies to deadheads originally
scheduled over 16 hours under the provisions of this rule.
The pilot should not ask Corporate Travel for an e-mail in
any other situation in which first class is authorized, but
cannot be booked due to availability.
Example: A pilot is booked on United to HKG. There
is no seating for either discounted first class or full fare
first class, so Corporate Travel books the pilot in business
class with a reservation to upgrade to first class contingent
upon availability. The accepted fare for the discounted first
class was $1500, which is the amount the pilot’s deviation
Sec. 8.C.3.a. (continued)
February 28, 2011
8-10
bank is credited with per Section 8.A.4.c.v. Corporate travel
sends the pilot an e-mail indicating that first class could not
be booked on his deadhead flight over 16 hours. The pilot
deviates, using a full fare first class ticket on a direct flight
on Northwest, which costs $2300.
The pilot’s total deviation bank for the month normally
would be $2,500 ($1,000 for other tickets, and $1,500 for
the UA flight to HKG). Assume that the pilot has spent a
total of $3,000 ($2,300 for the NW flight to HKG, and $700
for other travel). When reconciling his deviation expenses,
the pilot includes a copy of the Corporate Travel e-mail
indicating that first class could not be booked on the UA
flight to HKG. This e-mail indicates to the travel auditors
to increase the deviation bank by $800 in order to pay the
NW flight to HKG. This essentially pays the NW deviation
flight as a separate transaction, and the remainder of the
pilot’s deviation expenses are reconciled against a bank
of $1,000 (the original bank less the planned UA ticket
to HKG). Consequently, if the pilot had spent a total of
$3,400 ($2,300 for the NW ticket and $1,100 for other
deviation expenses), $100 of those expenses would not be
reimbursed, and must be paid by the pilot, just like in the
normal situation.
08-30-2015 | 05:47 PM
#166
On Reserve
Joined: Aug 2015
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
From: Counting down the bid packs
Yes, I do know that AT&T is recouping the cost of the phone with higher rates. I also know that the new plan I got was slightly better than the Verizon plan I was leaving (more Data) and slightly cheaper for the 6 lines I need.
08-30-2015 | 06:40 PM
#167
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2009
Posts: 45
Likes: 0
From: MD F/O
I am a former military guy, and one of the toughest things to teach an all fangs no forehead fighter pilot is knowing when to engage and when to disengage. There are some missions that are so important that you have to be willing to lose everything. Other missions, not so much. Fortunately, lives aren't at stake with our TA. But QOL is. So is this one of those fights where we should go to the merge no matter what the cost, or should we take a second to consider where we really stand after the initial engagement? Right now I see a bunch of fired up guys with their fangs out heading in full AB toward an established furball. They have only half a picture and don't care to hear any more. All they want is a kill, because dammit, they deserve it. In my experience, that almost never ends well.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
I understand your point about what is actually "achievable" and concur that conclusion will only be reached after fully vetting this TA in the coming weeks--as a group. In the meantime, I believe it prudent to do all possible to maximize our collective interests in this collaborative TA document, and secure an opportunity to refine it. All commentary--pro or con--helps to inform this action/decision.
08-30-2015 | 07:38 PM
#168
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
I don't think that voting NO means that you are going to "lose everything", and I'm not sure what you mean by that, or if it is hyperbole. Do you mean that we should be willing to lose our jobs to get a better deal? Because if you do, I think you stand with a very small crowd.
08-30-2015 | 08:02 PM
#169
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 14
From: Tool-Box, old man
I don't know that you can speak for everyone as the "we". You may be willing to lose everything, but many pilots at FedEx still think this is the best job out there. We still enjoy what we do, feel that we do something important, and take pride in it. You may be happy to lose your job and go elsewhere, so perhaps you are very young, or have a healthy trust fund. I personally make more than anyone I know, and think I have a better job, also. I would like a greater pension and pay raise, however I am not willing to "lose everything" just to get a little better deal. I'm not sure how I'm going to vote until I actually see the TA, but so far a 30K immediate annual pay raise, a $35K+ bonus, and improved work rules look fairly attractive.
I don't think that voting NO means that you are going to "lose everything", and I'm not sure what you mean by that, or if it is hyperbole. Do you mean that we should be willing to lose our jobs to get a better deal? Because if you do, I think you stand with a very small crowd.
I don't think that voting NO means that you are going to "lose everything", and I'm not sure what you mean by that, or if it is hyperbole. Do you mean that we should be willing to lose our jobs to get a better deal? Because if you do, I think you stand with a very small crowd.
08-30-2015 | 08:06 PM
#170
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 2,756
Likes: 0
I don't think anyone has said that. This is the TA that was negotiated by our union, and we don't even have full details yet. Had we only a TA that the company offered us, I guarantee you, it would look a whole lot worse.
My point was, what do you mean that we should be willing to risk everything?
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