MEC Vote 10-4 to approve-Similar to DAL MEC
08-30-2015 | 03:00 PM
#151
"blue collar thug"!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,614
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From: A proponent of...
Don't you think if it was absolutely vital for them to get the TA approved, they would have stopped stalling months ago? And if we vote down the TA, how does that change our options for our impact on peak? How much more can we legally do as a group? On our last big divert event, do you think crews made decisions based on professional judgement, or on trying to make things difficult for the company? Based on my experience flying in this company, I'm going with professional judgement. I am almost 100% certain the same thing will happen on the next major divert event, new contract or not. FedEx the corporation has gotten very good at moving freight when bad things happen. FedEx Express is on its butt right now because it screwed up its projection on manning and increasing volume. But I do not believe the bigwigs at Hacks Cross are going to make hugely significant, decades long financial increases to our contract just to cover the next peak. They'll just pay for more wet lease (not every freight company is maxed out right now) and settle back for more of the same stalling we've seen for four years. I can handle that if the net result is a substantially better contract. I'm paying my bills with the current contract. But unless you think our NC just kissed off this cycle of negotiations, I'm not sure what you think they are going to gain in the next.
I also disagree with the assumption that we should expect to be paid what we think we are worth. Our services are worth what someone else is willing to pay for them. Period. The only people who get to pick their salary based on what they think they are worth are congressmen and dictators. We aren't them. That's why we have to negotiate. And negotiations are a two way street. Doesn't matter if you're a prostitute, a rock star or an airline pilot. We collectively hired an agent to do our negotiating, and our agent has told us in a 10-4 vote what the company is willing to pay us. Right now, that is what we are worth. We can try for more, but if we do, I think we should hire a new negotiator. Maybe I'm naïve, but I think our current NC has done the best they can.
I also disagree with the assumption that we should expect to be paid what we think we are worth. Our services are worth what someone else is willing to pay for them. Period. The only people who get to pick their salary based on what they think they are worth are congressmen and dictators. We aren't them. That's why we have to negotiate. And negotiations are a two way street. Doesn't matter if you're a prostitute, a rock star or an airline pilot. We collectively hired an agent to do our negotiating, and our agent has told us in a 10-4 vote what the company is willing to pay us. Right now, that is what we are worth. We can try for more, but if we do, I think we should hire a new negotiator. Maybe I'm naïve, but I think our current NC has done the best they can.
I disagree with your disagreement.
Our services are worth what we are willing to negotiate and fight for. Period.
08-30-2015 | 03:07 PM
#152
"blue collar thug"!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: A proponent of...
Originally Posted by Rock 
...Doesn't matter if you're a prostitute, a rock star or an airline pilot...
If you are a prostitute and good looking, with a bunch of guys around that need a service, you will probably bargain a good deal. If you are a mutt with not many dogs around, you may not get a good deal.
If you are a top rock star and there are many wanting to hear you, you will probably get a deal. If your music stinks, not so much of a good deal.
So what are we; a good looking woman or great band, or otherwise? That seems to be the problem with the thinking around here, IMO.
...Doesn't matter if you're a prostitute, a rock star or an airline pilot...
If you are a prostitute and good looking, with a bunch of guys around that need a service, you will probably bargain a good deal. If you are a mutt with not many dogs around, you may not get a good deal.
If you are a top rock star and there are many wanting to hear you, you will probably get a deal. If your music stinks, not so much of a good deal.
So what are we; a good looking woman or great band, or otherwise? That seems to be the problem with the thinking around here, IMO.
08-30-2015 | 04:18 PM
#154
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,201
Likes: 0
Originally Posted by Rock
...Doesn't matter if you're a prostitute, a rock star or an airline pilot...
If you are a prostitute and good looking, with a bunch of guys around that need a service, you will probably bargain a good deal. If you are a mutt with not many dogs around, you may not get a good deal.
If you are a top rock star and there are many wanting to hear you, you will probably get a deal. If your music stinks, not so much of a good deal.
So what are we; a good looking woman or great band, or otherwise? That seems to be the problem with the thinking around here, IMO.
...Doesn't matter if you're a prostitute, a rock star or an airline pilot...
If you are a prostitute and good looking, with a bunch of guys around that need a service, you will probably bargain a good deal. If you are a mutt with not many dogs around, you may not get a good deal.
If you are a top rock star and there are many wanting to hear you, you will probably get a deal. If your music stinks, not so much of a good deal.
So what are we; a good looking woman or great band, or otherwise? That seems to be the problem with the thinking around here, IMO.
08-30-2015 | 04:39 PM
#155
"blue collar thug"!
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1,614
Likes: 0
From: A proponent of...
Is that the case? You know that for sure? The Company wont negotiate anymore?
If you were a mil guy, I would ask you if you thought the bad guys were better pilots, or had better weaponry, you would give up?
Nothing personal, but that is the kind of attitude that has got us to this point, a so so TA. Geez.
Oh, nevermind, you said what if.
08-30-2015 | 05:00 PM
#156
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 64
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The person is done only because he thinks he can get the other person to accept his low price. What if the person holding the money is done negotiating for jet fuel. Then the seller tells that person, that the cost of that fuel is now higher than what he is willing to pay. The seller (or, let's say, the marketplace), says that the fuel is worth more now. Is he just going to not pay the price, and let the jets sit idle, or is he going to accept the higher price as the cost of doing business, and find the money to pay for that fuel.
We are just a cost center, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. If the cost of doing business goes up, it's up to management to figure out how to pay for that increase, in order to keep the jets, and packages moving. It's up to us to let management know what we think we are worth.
We are just a cost center, that's all. Nothing more, nothing less. If the cost of doing business goes up, it's up to management to figure out how to pay for that increase, in order to keep the jets, and packages moving. It's up to us to let management know what we think we are worth.
08-30-2015 | 05:00 PM
#157
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,201
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Is that the case? You know that for sure? The Company wont negotiate anymore?
If you were a mil guy, I would ask you if you thought the bad guys were better pilots, or had better weaponry, you would give up?
Nothing personal, but that is the kind of attitude that has got us to this point, a so so TA. Geez.
Oh, nevermind, you said what if.
If you were a mil guy, I would ask you if you thought the bad guys were better pilots, or had better weaponry, you would give up?
Nothing personal, but that is the kind of attitude that has got us to this point, a so so TA. Geez.
Oh, nevermind, you said what if.
Sorry for the military stuff. But you started it.
08-30-2015 | 05:19 PM
#159
Nice lookin' tree, there!
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 2,239
Likes: 14
From: Tool-Box, old man
How many times have we heard "the company is looking past the NC and looking directly at US?" That is why the NC brought us what we see. Maybe it is time to show the company that they misread US! I firmly believe if we throw this back - the same NC can bring US a better deal!
Oh what am I saying? Most of you are ready to settle for crumbs when a whole slice is sitting there. That is just sad!
Oh what am I saying? Most of you are ready to settle for crumbs when a whole slice is sitting there. That is just sad!
08-30-2015 | 05:24 PM
#160
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Joined: Nov 2014
Posts: 64
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Since when is a no vote the same as quitting? I'm just saying, if you think you are worth more than that this TA is offering, if you think your efforts, which help generate some of the highest revenues of any air carrier, are worth more, then let management know by voting no. If enough people feel that way, then it is up to management to figure out how to deal with that problem. If you feel that this is what you are worth, then vote yes. Me, personally, I feel that I am worth more. But that's just me.
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