CloudSailor

And the 5 (then 4) dissenting votes will have the best information on why to vote no.

JC Dude

I know everyone is tired of negotiations and wanted the moon and stars. I also know we didn't get everything we as individuals wanted. We have said for several years now "My NC speaks for me". Now we have a TA that very few have seen and all are speculating about. Why not wait until everyone sees it and reads it completely, then ASK THE NC why each decision was made. We have talked of unity and now we destroying good will by bashing someone just cause they look at something differently. Take a breath, ask questions and LISTEN to the answer! Then make an informed decision.


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Rock

Wouldn't you rather read the contract and form your own decision?

flextodaline

Compare our section 6 openers, and what we initially wanted, with what's in the TA........just sayin'......."Luceeee, you got some 'splainin' to do....

Albief15

I'll throw this out too.

I've been one of the 12 angry men. I threw a fit about the original FDA online, raised a stink, and eventually ran and won an MEC seat. I then spent 3 years as a block rep, a couple years as a lobbyist for ALPA, and a little less than a year on a National Committee. What I learned along the way was this is a hard, hard business and there are times due to forces outside your control you have to make tough decisions. Wrong decisions can cost your friends and co-workers their money, their jobs, and affect the industry for decades. Its harder than it looks, so saying "well…they shoulda given us this or gotten us that…" ignores the real environment which these guys have to operate. Unlike many here…my name is known and if you want to chat or email I am in VIPS.

Like the Delta guys…we have a great luxury. None of us should be missing any meals right now. If we reject this TA, we'll live with current book for a while….a year or two, perhaps a couple more. I can live with that. Maybe we will recoup any money lost with a delay. Maybe we won't, but less money overall will be offset with improvements we wanted more. We aren't faced with a company threatening furloughs or bankruptcy if they don't get a deal.

What I will say is this… Our chairman has my trust. Our Veep has my trust. RZ has my trust. SL and his NC team have my trust. My rep…and the other reps on the team…even guys I sometimes argued with on the opposite sides of issues like MA and DM have my trust. By that I do not mean I am going to blindly follow them or allow them to make decisions for me without weighing my own thoughts and the ramifications to my family. I will certainly be interested in hearing the counter-TA positions and the reasons at least 4 reps had some concerns. (FYI…I haven't looked at who voted no yet…but my HKG rep was apparently one so I"m sure we'll have some conversations in detail).

Here's what I will say. There is nobody on that team that I worked with at any time that wants to screw over our pilot group. There is nobody on that team that did not want big improvements to the A plan and a host of other areas. Chimenti, Eissler, Gustafson, Irgins, and Larsen all have had their turn at bat the last decade. Guess what--not a single one of them has managed to walk out with a perfect deal. We've had SIG people on and off the team, R&I guys come and go, and host of other faces pass through. Track those guys down on the line and ask them about the environment they work in. While I have seen factions come and go, and some guys more than others seem to crave union office, the fact is even the guys I didn't alway like were doing their best to help the rest of us. We often fought about the best way to get there, but I honestly think we were all trying to get to the same point.

When I see someone say these guys are going to put a sales job on you, I disagree. I fought with RZ in Desert Storm. He would probably be happier chilling with his wife in an FDA or flying the line, but he's here. CD could be skiing in his time off living in Colorado…but instead he spent years trying to keep the committees working together without killing each other and working quietly in the background to prepare us for….well…a strike if required. These guys are not career politicians, and they when this is over one will retire and one likely will retreat to the line. I'm not saying I am voting yes…but I am saying if these guys offer a recommendation its because they really think its the best we can do…for all of us, not for them.

Now--that doesn't mean we have to agree. I suspect some of those who voted against the TA will have some ideas and opinions on how we go forward if we reject the TA. I plan to listen to them just as closely as I do the other ideas.

And…when its done…I'll make the call I think is best for me…and my family. But regardless of how you vote…these guys aren't car salesmen. They are your fellow pilots. We voted for many of them, and asked them to do this for us. Now they are back to show what they have (or have not) accomplished. I would expect them to tell us it was the best that they could do or they would not be those positions. That's not a sales job--that's just pride in a hard fought job. But it will be up to us to decide what we do with their work…and its going to be close.

But regardless of how you vote--these guys deserve some respect. That job wrecks families, health, and morale in ways its hard to understand until you see it first hand. So don't forget to say "thanks". They have earned it.

pinseeker

Looking at our openers, it looks like we got at least 75% of what we were looking for. The only "splainin'" that needs to be done is why people are so mad about the highlights when we haven't seen the actual TA. Maybe they should have complained more about our openers. If you thought we would get everything we asked for in our openers, then you don't understand what negotiations are.

CloudSailor

Absolutely!

I don't think anybody here equated them to car salesmen or was that insulting, but they have a job to do, and after recommending a TA to be passed, they will be presenting a biased view (just as any other roadshow you've seen right?, nothing personal), just as much as the dissenters would present a biased view if they were allowed to present it in roadshow form.

And I completely agree with your sentiment: MEC Chairman CD is completely a 100% stand-up guy, and also has his heart the right place. I look forward to discussing all this in person with him, as he's the only guy I know somewhat well.

MaydayMark

Albie and professional friends ...

I always try to attend the Roadshows hoping that the folks who have lived this drama see details that I may have overlooked.

I thought it was interesting that the FPA did not give us the courtesy of distributing copies prior to their Roadshows? I left the FPA presentation thinking that (after I read the TA) I would probably vote for it. When my copy of the TA arrived in the mail I spent several days reading it. My opinion; the Roadshow only highlighted the good points. There had been no mention of the bad points. I felt as if I had been deceived and voted NO!! It's very interesting to me that the FPA Negotiating Committee Chairman was subsequently promoted to VP of Flight Ops (and has NOT been our friend)!*?

Another NC Committee Chairman was subsequently promoted to SCP (and has not been our freind)!*?

I've worked at airlines where Management was on the same side as the pilots. If you got in trouble in was their job to see if there was a reasonable way to get you out of trouble. Management was your friend. It's not that way here ... I think that's sad.

YYESIAV8

Mayday Mark I've worked at airlines where Management was on the same side as the pilots. If you got in trouble in was their job to see if there was a reasonable way to get you out of trouble. Management was your friend. It's not that way here ... I think that's sad."

Bill, I get your point, but aren't you being a little disingenuous. Management probably saved your life...

Commando

Your Joking, right? Or very misinformed with everything it seems. "FDX the most highly compensated for the next 4 years???"

Maybe 4 months.

DL, UAL, and UPS will be higher in the next year than a lame 10% cola raise. Your TA Hourly pay is below the Voted down DL TA already!

DL VOTED DOWN TA pay was $320 an Hour in Jan. 2017 vs. FDX TA at $295 in Oct. 2016. And it stays at that separation till 2021.

Please do some research before babbling incorrect info.