Your assumption that the 18% B fund does not hold a candle to what we have now is only valid if the cap gets raised. If the cap does not get raised then 15 or 20 years down the road when pay tops out at 450K per year that A fund will look pretty chintzy and guys will be wishing they had that 18% tucked away somewhere. As the high 5 average creeps above 260K you are no longer effectively getting 2% per year, so you will effectively have the UPS A Fund without the UPS B Fund.

Now it is your turn to say well we just wont sign a deal unless we get a raise in the cap. Here is how I think it played out.

FDX went to the mediator and said we want PBS and they wont talk to us. The mediator says ALPA why wont you talk about PBS. ALPA says we like it the way it is. The mediator says suck it up FedEx.

Next FDX went to the mediator and said we want New hires off the A Fund and ALPA wont talk to us. The mediator says ALPA why wont you talk about the A Fund. ALPA says we like it the way it is no reason to change. The mediator says suck it up FedEx.

Next ALPA goes to the mediator and says we want the A Fund cap raised and FedEx wont talk to us. The mediator says FedEx why wont you talk about the A Fund cap. FedEx says says we like it the way it is no reason to change. The mediator says suck it up ALPA.

 

Hey, that's only $1600/mo or $20,000/yr. Who cares - we're all rich.

Pipe

 

Thanks for the long discussion on why you don't like the TA, I certainly don't like a lot of it. I still say between our work rules (no PBS, vacation, sick bank, fatigue, pay for deadheads, etc), and our A Plan (how many are better) FEDEX pays as much or more for Pilots under this contract than anyone else and will for at least the next 4 years. They should we fly some of the most demanding trips and back side of the clock takes a big toll on us.

If I am wrong I am sure they will tell us at the roadshows.

 

Aren't you a UPS Pilot? Either way your ignorance and arrogance is staggering.


Please tell me one actual Airline Contract that has a higher rate than the proposed FedEx TA rate?

Don't worry, I'll save you the trouble...there isn't one! So yes, it will become an "Industry Leading" rate...if it gets approved. You really can't put Delta on the books. News Flash...It was voted down.

I'm thinking most guys you fly with appreciate one leg only with you.

 

My math may be way off, and i'm sure someone will correct me if i'm wrong...but, when I crunch my numbers I come up with ~$370,000 average earnings required at 18% b fund and a 7% return each year to equal a 2%A / 9%B fund with the same 7% return using current pay rates. Just a wag though. I'd much rather keep what we have. BUT, the fact that the cap wasn't raised is huge in my opinion, and is concerning.

I do think that the conversation you listed may have been exactly how it went down.

 

I'm not too thrilled with the TA, but one perspective I had with a UPS friend about payrates, is that our WB payrate encompasses a lot more pilots than the delta or American 777/747 rates. Only a few pilots will get those rates at those airlines.I would like to see what the 767 and 757 rates were in the delta ta that was turned down, and compare those to our narrow body payrate. I havent heard much discussion about that. Anyone have that info??

 

The 16% B Plan at 300K is really a 11% B plan for every Captain or anyone making 300K a year. This needs to be out there and educated to the masses. It's not because of the Federal Limits. I think the Total Contributions for the B Plan and 401K is around 50K per year. So once the 50K limit is Hit, the contributions stop.

So in reality the B-Plan of 16% is a 11-12% B Plan.

 

Pipe,

I am on the fence. I want to hear from the dissenters their vision going forward if we kick it back.

I can live with current book for the next few years. Nobody is getting furloughed and the company isn't going into chapter 11 if we do not get a deal. If there is a solid, reasonable plan to get more I am listening. I like the deadheading and some work rule improvements, but just have a hard time not improving A plan for a mere 1% B plan bump.

I don't think the NMB is our ally right now. That does not mean a mandatory yes vote, however. I plan on listening to the road shows and asking a lot of questions.

 

I would like to know what the options are, if we do end up kicking it back. If we have to negotiate for another two years, that's one year of a 10% pay raise, and one year of a 13% pay raise that we have to catch up on. How much better of a deal does it have to be to catch up on that?

Will the mediator stay with us, or give up? I hope that very soon, along with the specific details of this TA, that the union tells us what happens otherwise. I'd also like to hear from the negotiating committee. If they think they got the very best deal possible for us, it would be pretty depressing for them to hear all the negative comments about it. Before the specific details are even out.

 

No. They Love It! lol- Since I'm not a push over like your Header says. "Contract Now?" Which implies you want a Contract Now and will take any Contract. Which is obvious from your Post. 10% Raise? Really? No wonder this profession has gone South with people like yourself thinking that this adequate for what we do. Sad.