FDXLAG

I'm your huckleberry. Delta voted down their TA because half their raise came from giving up half their profit sharing. They gave up scope seats to European partners. They gave up FO training bumps. And they gave up the right to privacy on their medical records. There is no doubt in my mind DALPA would Jump for our TA and our work rules in a heartbeat.

As I understand it we are voting no because of no A plan increase, Lie flat seats instead of a possible first class upgrade, give and take on deviation bank, and some other various and sundry laundry list of items. Some of those items like changing turn times to deny hotel rooms the company can and are doing now.

Now vote no if you want, I understand your decision, some people I respect are in that camp. But the same goes for the yes camp. Ill be perfectly happy with my vote and happy however the membership vote turns out. As per the 2011 contract vote I will be perfectly happy saying I told you so. Frankly as I have said more then once, after we gave away the farm in 2011 for 6%, I didn't expect another contract until 2017 anyways. How did you vote in 2011?

iarapilot

And you seem to beat the dead horse about it being impossible to get one by peak. Has no bearing on a Y or N vote. Minutia. Every time someone brings it up, you have to repeat yourself, acting like it figures in the big picture, and if they are wrong, a no vote would be invalidated.

Lets say DV is incorrect in his assessment of having a new TA. That certainly doesnt make his other point invalid.

You are really starting to sound like a big whiner, trying to make a point with a non point. JMO of course.

And for everyone else who might say we could have a new TA by peak, please dont. Rock will prove you wrong.

pipe

Betcha every last single nickel that you're wrong. If you offered them our TA and then threw in that 60-70% of their flying would occur between 10pm and 8am then I'd be pretty confident that you'd have a solid "NO" on your hands.

Try comparing apples to apples next time - even if it's inconvenient.

Pipe

repoman

+1
If you think for one minute Delta guys would put up with flying the crap schedules most of us fly except for the top 15% of each seat, you are sadly mistaken. The pax guys don't have the huge differences in lines like we do here, and if we continue to put up with it things will never change. This isn't about lie flat seats, this is about some ****ed off pilots that are asking for better work rules that hopefully allow us live longer and collect more than 4 years of retirement.

Rock

While I agree with your last sentence, the confusion you reveal in the rest of your post doesn't surprise me anymore. If you'd like an example of how normal IQ people engage in a discussion about things they don't necessarily agree on, reread posts 34-37 on this thread. I'll give you the Cliffsnotes to give you a head start... Jolly makes a point. I ask him a specific question about a specific point he raised. He responds directly to my specific question. And we move on.

FDXLAG

I didn't make the comparison your fellow Sons of Harpy did. Bet your wrong. Now prove it. This is focking silly.


A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject.

Winston Churchill

Vote how you want. I will.

CloudSailor

Exactly!

To say that this TA has created such disappointment 'just because of' the mere lack of an improved A plan, and a bunch of other 'trivial stuff'...sounds pretty empty coming from someone who is just looking to retire under it (I've talked to several), while collecting as much cash out the door, knowing fully well they won't have to live with the long term ramifications of poorly worded language in many of the sections. Language which will be open to interpretation and exploitation by the company's lawyers.

DL, AA, UA, would be demanding what many of us are, particularly when seen through the type of flying we do here. Their best comparison to our night hub turning model, are red-eyes and standup overnights - if you've been there, you know there is no comparison.

My hat off to the DL group, without their rejected TA, I think we would have little hope of rejecting ours. But even more compliments to our senior captains here who are showing true leadership. They could just say FYIGM and vote this in for the SLB and $40K, and leave, since none of the rest of the CBA will affect them in the long term. But, there are many guys in those leadership positions on our property, with principle and conviction who know that this TA, which was rushed to the table right before the stockholder's meeting and peak, is not what we deserve to sign up for the better part of a decade. It was rushed by the company in the hopes that the fatigue from the RLA process, and the fear of the unknown, would have us concede in not only our stated Section 6 openers, but also in work rules and QOL issues, that were gained by our negotiations in our few previous contracts. There are guys who have seen the company exploit loose language in the contract for too long and know that this TA opens us up to some serious optimizing in the long term. And there are the guys who helped build this great company, with over 25 years here, who will stand up for what we are worth collectively. I'm proud to be associated with those guys.

iarapilot

Thanks for clearing things up for me.

BadgerBoy

I’ve been trying to educate myself as best as I can on this TA by not only reading the document itself but also looking at the opinions online and talking to fellow crewmembers. I’m a fence sitter at this point, but I’ve noticed a lack of what I consider to be a few important pieces of information when considering to vote yes or no.

First, there seems to be an assumption that if we vote this TA down EVERYTHING we don’t like is going to get changed by FedEx in our favor and they will seek nothing in return. I wish that was true, but we are in mediated negotiations and there has to be give and take as the TA shows. Every section is not going to be renegotiated.

Second, the biggest heartburn with the TA– and rightly so – seems to be the lack of an increase in the A Fund. The company has made it very clear from way back they want out of the current A Fund business for new hires (whether they can afford it or not isn't the issue). We approached negotiations from the position of everyone has to be included and it has to be increased. A stance destined to fail from the beginning considering their known position. The NC was offered retirement improvement options that could have possibly improved everyone’s retirement but they we’re not allowed to consider them per directives from the MEC. It was a one size fits all on the A Fund even though that may not have been the best thing for a new hire. FedEx said have it your way and we got what we got. However, I personally see this as an opportunity for a win – win on our part. If the TA passes we get some overall gains and instant monetary gains with the opportunity to fix our retirement if we want to (and it’s obvious we do). As a few block reps and NC members have said, the company wants changes to the A Fund and would likely entertain negotiations outside of the CBA to restructure our one size fits all plan to something that works better for all based on where you are in your career. If you say no-way just remember, they tried to offer a restructured retirement during negotiations already but the NC wasn’t allowed to even consider it. Instead of waiting while this deal is renegotiated, and I believe we will wait, we can enjoy the improvements in the TA. If you can live with the rest of the TA and the A-Fund is your deal-breaker think about the above possibility.

Third, this needs to be a business decision not an emotional one. I remember the saying “don’t let your mad get in front of your money”. Not much mention is made of monetary losses and how long it would take to recoup that money while waiting on a renegotiation. That has to come off the bottom line of any possible future improvement. It could be worth it for some (assuming we get improvements) and a wash or loss for others depending on when you plan to retire.

Just some observation and opinion, some days I’m a yes and some a no. There are both things to like and dislike in the TA. Educate yourself!

BB

busdriver12

Just read an email from the union that links you to their site with pro and con information about the TA.