busdriver12

Looks like this loser managed to get himself banned, though these kind of guys never seem to go away, they just find a way to come back under another name.

How sad to only come on here to laugh at and abuse people. Most of us are actually trying to learn something, help others, or argue (I mean discuss). Honestly, I can't imagine how miserable you'd have to be, to only post your condescending put downs, without anything else to say.

Busboy

25.S.2 is very clear about standbys and disruption pay concerning landings and layover city changes.

25.S.2.a Landing Disruption

A disruption(s) is created if a trip is revised such that the number of actual landings during the trip exceeds the number of landings scheduled when the trip was awarded/assigned. Each additional landing shall result in a separate disruption. For purposes of this paragraph, landings are counted if:
...
ii. the landing did not occur in any of the following circumstances:
...
(b) during a standby sequence;


25.S.2.c.iii.d Layovers that were scheduled to occur during a standby sequence are counted as if they occurred as scheduled, regardless of how the trip actually operates.

Rock

Busdrivers, you are both correct on that. Thanks. I was focusing on section 4 regarding pay and not looking hard enough at section 25. Not the first time that has bitten me when trying to figure out the impact of trip revisions.
The layover disruption is a little unclear to me. The only layover scheduled to occur "during a standby sequence" is the layover at your hotel. They are counted as if they occurred as scheduled regardless of how the trip operates. But layovers added as part of a trip revision weren't scheduled to occur. Given the X/y>50% rule, that almost never would be a factor on most hotel standbys. But in the case of a trip revision that adds more than two days to a typical 4 day standby trip, I think I'll press to test on submitting a pay request. Worst case, they say no. Of course, it only pays 1:30CH.
I've been called out on hotel standbys several times in the past. But it was always for an out and back or a single layover trip. They generally don't change the credit hours of the trip. The one I am sorting out now nearly doubled the scheduled credit hours. Throw in multiple revisions of the revision, cancelled and reassigned deadheads and it's open season for CBA surfing.
Still waiting for an official answer on trip guarantee on field hotel standbys.

tennesseeflyboy

Another example of why pilots should not be negotiating contracts for themselves but the Union national leaders seem to like it as it keeps the muddy water factor well mixed ......... This whole thing is a damn mess and all of you know it

MaxKts

Rock, if you haven't figured it out yet - many of us were against this contract for the reason your question came up in the first place. There are too many undefined areas and what we got were more of the same instead of defining what we already had.

If you want the official answer - you were already given it - you are on a trip! The only thing that counts is what you have done when the trip ends. Oh wait I'm not an official so call the company I'm sure they have the answer!

Rock

Max, I heard many reasons why guys were against the contract. Especially on this website. Personally, I'm glad we didn't reject the TA because of ambiguity regarding trip guarantee on field hotel standbys.
On the subject of trip guarantee...can you think of a single company initiated, post block out trip revision that would result in a pilot being paid less than trip guarantee for the trip? I can't. Which means that, for the matter of determining how much you will get paid for a trip, trip guarantee at block out sets a floor that can't be reduced no matter what you end up actually flying on the trip.
Which goes back to my original question. When you are assigned a trip during a base hotel standby period, you receive trip guarantee for that trip at block out. Is the same true for a field hotel standby period?

Busboy

One last time...Field hotel standby IS a trip! A field hotel standby TRIP receives trip guarantee. If extended, you receive overage, just like any other trip. And like I said before, revisions are covered in 25.S.2.

A trip begins and ends in your base. If you're on field hotel standby, you're not in your base, you're already in the field. That's why it's called "Field" hotel standby. You are assigned flights, not trips, when on field hotel standby.

Rock

How you've described that is perfectly clear. And I sincerely appreciate your explanation. But can you take just one more step and describe the difference then in how trips are assigned in a base hotel standby? If you aren't ever assigned a trip on a base hotel standby, do you ever "block out"? If you are assigned a trip, what is the contract referring to here...(I don't think the contract ever uses the term "flight" with regard to scheduling)
4.O.4. If a pilot on base hotel standby blocks out on a trip, he shall earn the trip guarantee for that trip
I've done both base and field hotel standbys within the last year. I was assigned trips on both. How the revisions show up on your schedule and your pay summary are identical. I was paid trip guarantee for the trip assigned on the base hotel standby. The additional hours were paid as overage to the original credit hour value of the stand by period. Similarly, the additional hours on my field hotel standby were also paid as overage. However, the final credit hours paid do not equal the additional hours of the revision. Or any of the revisions. They are more than the final revision and less than the revision when I blocked out after the initial revision was made. That is what got me looking at the whole thing in the first place.

busdriver12

I think you're making this far more complicated than it needs to be. You'll get paid the greater of what the original standby paid, or the final revision. The interim revisions mean nothing. Perhaps the discrepancy is nothing more than an error, or sometimes it can be confusing calculating what a trip is actually worth.

Rock

Yeah, no doubt. Type A to a fault. But in my defense, it actually pays off about half the time. I figure as long as the contract controls my pay, I want to see how my pay is being determined in writing in the contract. Usually, I can figure it out. Sometimes, not so much.