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Old 03-19-2019, 07:16 AM   #11  
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I'm also kind of unique, in that I already have roughly 8 years or so of non-flying Part 121 operational auditing and safety program management experience along with a masters in aviation safety and an aircraft dispatcher certificate that may make me a slightly more attractive low time candidate than someone straight out of school. (If you want to know what "operational auditing" experience means, check out AC 120-59B http://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/m...AC_120-59B.pdf). I was reasonably good at my job, and my experience with regulations and dealing with the FAA could likely be a huge plus for some 135 operators. Since I'm largely trying to focus on flying now, that's the kind of thing I'd only agree to do part time though.

I know there's pros on cons to each, but I at least feel that if I didn't choose to get my CFI, "check-mark wise" my previous airline experience and education would likely more than make up for it.
For regionals it won't matter either way, they are (almost) all hiring all comers right now and for the foreseeable future.

For majors, that experience will not get you called faster because there's no checkbox for that on the computer-screened applications. You need to read the aps and figure out how to check those boxes.

Once you actually get called for a major interview (that's the real trick), your previous experience will be a good conversation topic and should help you. But generally these days IF you get the interview call, they intend to hire you unless you screw it up... it's getting the call that's hard.
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Old 03-19-2019, 07:23 AM   #12  
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Oh, I’ll be sure to do everything you just suggested. I appreciate your constructive advice.

After all, it’s not like my experience and relationships over the years working with folks in Part 121 positions like Director of Ops, Chief Pilot, Director of Safety, Director of Training, or Director of Standards have provided me with any useful insight on what it takes to be a successful pilot. Let’s not even mention all the times I’ve jumpseated and the topic of getting my certificates came up. You know me so well already, I’m surprised you haven’t mapped out my entire career path for me.

Believe it or not though, there are ways to leverage my current experience into flying jobs. Ever seen the Manager or Director of Safety fly where you work? I have. Know what an IOSA Auditor or an IEP Auditor is or how difficult it is to find qualified candidates for either? In business aviation they typically have something similar, but they're typically auditing to ISBAO or Argus standards. There are many ways into flying jobs other than through the front door.
JB is correct...

Any real airline pilot you meet will be rolling his eyes at this sort of attitude.

You think we don't don't deal with idiotic managers every day who think they know how to do our job better than we do? A big part of our job is telling people like that "No."

There will be pilots on the interview panel, I suggest you adopt a different approach. Your experience will have intangible value to the company, but it in no way replaces actual pilot experience and credentials. Don't come off like you think it does.

If you have friends/acquaintances in Flight Ops management at a good major, now THAT could fast-track your application. Maintain and nurture those relationships if you have them. Connections beats skill/experience almost every time.
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Old 03-19-2019, 08:02 AM   #13  
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JB is correct...

Any real airline pilot you meet will be rolling his eyes at this sort of attitude.

You think we don't don't deal with idiotic managers every day who think they know how to do our job better than we do? A big part of our job is telling people like that "No."

There will be pilots on the interview panel, I suggest you adopt a different approach. Your experience will have intangible value to the company, but it in no way replaces actual pilot experience and credentials. Don't come off like you think it does.

If you have friends/acquaintances in Flight Ops management at a good major, now THAT could fast-track your application. Maintain and nurture those relationships if you have them. Connections beats skill/experience almost every time.
I would rather be part of the Safety committee on the union side than a management pilot in Flight Ops, and I certainly know the tricks airlines try to pull sometimes to screw pilots over. I also donít think my previous experience has anything to do with my flying skills. My point is, I have experience and relationships to draw on going into this that is relatable, that most folks donít have. Trying to say, Iím not unique or different in that regard, is not an accurate statement.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:07 AM   #14  
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I would rather be part of the Safety committee on the union side than a management pilot in Flight Ops, and I certainly know the tricks airlines try to pull sometimes to screw pilots over. I also donít think my previous experience has anything to do with my flying skills. My point is, I have experience and relationships to draw on going into this that is relatable, that most folks donít have. Trying to say, Iím not unique or different in that regard, is not an accurate statement.
Congrats, you're unique. Here's your trophy. Expect preferential treatment going forward from people of diverse backgrounds and responsibilities.

May the odds ever be in your favor.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:50 AM   #15  
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Congrats, you're unique. Here's your trophy. Expect preferential treatment going forward from people of diverse backgrounds and responsibilities.

May the odds ever be in your favor.
Not looking for a trophy but thanks.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:04 AM   #16  
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Not looking for a trophy but thanks.
Consider some character traits most employers find attractive:

Ability to take criticism.
Ability to self assess.
Ability to develop a plan for personal development.
Ability to know when another person has more experience and wisdom in a particular field and to trust their judgment over your own instincts.

You've shown a lack of all of these in this thread.

I dread the moment someone tells you "my aircraft" and you happen to disagree with them.
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Old 03-19-2019, 10:23 AM   #17  
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Consider some character traits most employers find attractive:

Ability to take criticism.
Ability to self assess.
Ability to develop a plan for personal development.
Ability to know when another person has more experience and wisdom in a particular field and to trust their judgment over your own instincts.

You've shown a lack of all of these in this thread.

I dread the moment someone tells you "my aircraft" and you happen to disagree with them.
I can totally take constructive criticism, but just a bunch of crap stating hereís your trophy and your experience brings nothing to the table doesnít appear in any way to be helpful. Literally the thread started off with me asking about opinions how I should build my time, and evolved into something about how I apparently think Iím ďunique, special, and betterĒ than everyone else because I have 8 or so years of airline operations and safety/compliance experience. Let me emphasize, thatís not the case.

Pilots Iíve known have always told me to have as many ďcheckmarksĒ as you can, because when youíre going up against everyone else and all else is equal, you will stand out in the application process.

All Iím saying is that there are multiple avenues out there for me to build time. I appreciate the meaningful answers some people have chimed in with, but not neccesarily the answers that only criticise and gripe when you donít even have a full grasp on what Iím trying to say. Iím all for paying my dues before I get into more serious flying.

Last edited by AeroAl; 03-19-2019 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:17 PM   #18  
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I would rather be part of the Safety committee on the union side than a management pilot in Flight Ops, and I certainly know the tricks airlines try to pull sometimes to screw pilots over. I also don’t think my previous experience has anything to do with my flying skills. My point is, I have experience and relationships to draw on going into this that is relatable, that most folks don’t have. Trying to say, I’m not unique or different in that regard, is not an accurate statement.
It's a value-add for sure, but NOT a substitute for flying experience. It's one thing to understand safety systems, quite another to apply that theory in the real world while flying a jet. If you don't believe me now, you'll know what I'm talking about in eight years...

Bear in mind there are probably thousands of ex-military safety officers in the airlines. That helped them get hired, but it probably had more to do with all that military turbine PIC.

If you have high-level connections, that might actually be a shortcut.
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Old 03-19-2019, 02:29 PM   #19  
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It's a value-add for sure, but NOT a substitute for flying experience. It's one thing to understand safety systems, quite another to apply that theory in the real world while flying a jet. If you don't believe me now, you'll know what I'm talking about in eight years...

Bear in mind there are probably thousands of ex-military safety officers in the airlines. That helped them get hired, but it probably had more to do with all that military turbine PIC.

If you have high-level connections, that might actually be a shortcut.
Yeah, Iím definitely not disagreeing. Iím just thinking it might be possible to apply to ďanotherĒ job at wherever I ultimately want to end up going, and get in as a pilot internally 6 months to 1 year afterwards. I.E. Applying for a Flight Ops Regulatory Compliance Specialist, IEP Auditor or Flight Safety Specialist job, then asking to go through ground school later. Iíve seen something like this happen/work multiple times at the airlines Iíve worked at before.
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Old 03-19-2019, 03:16 PM   #20  
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Iím sure that if you have identical flying experience when compared to another candidate who did non aviation work before training, you would have the advantage.

If that other candidate is a CFI, and you bought your experience, than you are not identical

Last edited by DontLookDown; 03-19-2019 at 03:46 PM.
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