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Old 03-19-2019, 03:19 PM   #21  
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Getting back to the original question, no, don’t buy your own aircraft and expect it to be viewed as the equivalent of having a JOB in aviation.

You actually want to have 1500 hours experience for your ATP, not three hours of experience repeated 500 times. The statement about

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As a flight instructor, you'll undergo several more evaluations to get the ratings, then by a school to hire you, then training and evaluations during your time with the school, and your students will be examined, and their success will reflect on you. This paints a clearer picture of your character and ability than simply buying an airplane and flying it around (because you can)
may have been inelegantly worded (or not) but it is in fact true. Any job where your flying is SUPERVISED will be a better resume’ builder than any flying you do in your own aircraft unless that aircraft requires you to have a type rating (which is another way of saying there is a disinterested arbiter attesting to your competence). Don’t take it personally, people have been caught pencil-whipping their logbooks. While you I’m sure would never do that, the fact that others have and have been caught at it makes such self acquired hours a little suspect.

That’s not to say that a CFI position is your only path acceptable to getting those hours, it certainly is not, but the credibility of doing the flying AS EMPLOYMENT rather than flying “random cross countries” is a real issue and you ignore it at your peril.

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Old 03-19-2019, 03:35 PM   #22  
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I’m sure that if you have identical flying experience when compared to another candidate who did non aviation work before training, you would have the advantage.

If that other candidate is a CFI, and you bought your experience, not than you are not identical
Not identical, sure. I think the question then essentially comes down to does every thing else I have balance the lack of a CFI cert out?

Regional wise or corporate wise, I doubt I’d have any problems getting hired someplace reasonable at ATP minimums whether I had my CFI or not.

Major wise is obviously a different story and the question then becomes how much would a typical hiring panel weigh a CFI certificate vs an Aviation Safety Masters, 8 years of 121 safety experience, and a dispatcher certificate. Certainly I can get the CFI and add that extra “check mark” on top of what I already have, I’m just not seeing it as 100% necessary for being competitive at a major with what I already possess. I also “may” have the option of applying for “another” job at the airline I want to work, then trying to transfer internally as a pilot when the opportunity arises, and although while this strategy isn’t infaliable, I’ve personally witnessed some reasonable success. (This, and having the added advantage of existing industry contacts, is what I meant when I said my experience may give me some unique advantage).

The main reason I see for getting my CFI is the obvious cost savings and the fact that it can help make me a better pilot. Not saying that I can’t better myself flying around on charity trips and random cross countries though either... I’m leaning towards the CFI right now, but wouldn’t take the lack of one to be the death blow for my future at a major.

Last edited by AeroAl; 03-19-2019 at 04:13 PM.
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Old 03-19-2019, 03:46 PM   #23  
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Originally Posted by Excargodog View Post
Getting back to the original question, no, donít buy your own aircraft and expect it to be viewed as the equivalent of having a JOB in aviation.

You actually want to have 1500 hours experience for your ATP, not three hours of experience repeated 500 times. The statement about

may have been inelegantly worded (or not) but it is in fact true. Any job where your flying is SUPERVISED will be a better resumeí builder than any flying you do in your own aircraft unless that aircraft requires you to have a type rating (which is another way of saying there is a disinterested arbiter attesting to your competence). Donít take it personally, people have been caught pencil-whipping their logbooks. While you Iím sure would never do that, the fact that others have and have been caught at it makes such self acquired hours a little suspect.

Thatís not to say that a CFI position is your only path acceptable to getting those hours, it certainly is not, but the credibility of doing the flying AS EMPLOYMENT rather than flying ďrandom cross countriesĒ is a real issue and you ignore it at your peril.
Point taken, and itís defintely something Iíll consider. Iím leaning towards the CFI cert right now, but Iím not quite ready to write off the airplane idea just yet.
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Old 03-20-2019, 08:23 AM   #24  
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Your background will, more than likely, will differentiate you from other low time applicants, when viewed in the arena of Part 135 time building or stepping stone employers as you build your time to ATP minima, if you choose to go that route instead of your other offered options. However, if you read past the ascerbic comments of other posters, having the required time IS whatís looked at in the regional hiring game. (I make no apologies for, nor have approval of the sniping comments you received, as some particular people feel the need to belittle others who have less experience whilst they dispense their nuggets of wisdom..)

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Point taken, and itís defintely something Iíll consider. Iím leaning towards the CFI cert right now, but Iím not quite ready to write off the airplane idea just yet.
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Old 03-20-2019, 10:06 AM   #25  
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I'm also kind of unique, in that I already have roughly 8 years or so of non-flying Part 121 operational auditing and safety program management experience along with a masters in aviation safety and an aircraft dispatcher certificate that may make me a slightly more attractive low time candidate than someone straight out of school.
*yawn*

cool man, be sure to tell your first line captain that when you hop into the right seat of a 121 jet.
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Old 03-20-2019, 01:52 PM   #26  
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*yawn*

cool man, be sure to tell your first line captain that when you hop into the right seat of a 121 jet.
Lol, some of the things Iíve seen as an airline operations auditor might actually make for a pretty interesting conversation.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:03 AM   #27  
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Definitely get your CFI and more importantly your CFII. I too looked at getting my own plane, our family finances took a hit, so that was no longer possible. Iím glad I had to instruct though. Really helped with my airline interview. After about 500 hours of instructing, itís pretty much a grind. So I would recommend instructing during the day, and in the evening, flying a few hours in your own plane. This would get you to the airlines faster, with a good base knowledge. You can always sell the plane when youíre done for pretty much what you paid for it.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:14 AM   #28  
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You need 1500hrs for the regionals.
Whatever you have now is irrelevant.
Get your CFI.
To do it right is harder then you think and it will make you a better pilot.
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Old 03-22-2019, 08:47 AM   #29  
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You need 1500hrs for the regionals.
Whatever you have now is irrelevant.
Get your CFI.
To do it right is harder then you think and it will make you a better pilot.
Well, I think the overall consensus here is something like 75% get the CFI/II and 25% you're fine going the airplane route.

Admittedly, part of my apprehension with the CFI is that I've taught undergraduate level college classes before as a graduate student and while I wasn't a bad professor or anything, I didn't exactly have a passion for teaching. I also have some experience training and teaching others on safety & internal evaluation related items during my time in the airlines. Similar thoughts there, I made sure they learned what they needed to and were competent to be released into the wild, but I didn't exactly enjoy it.

I can't exactly say I'm looking forward to it, but it appears more and more likely that I'll go the CFI route and build most of my hours that way.

What are your thoughts on getting the CFI and moving onto getting a low time job around the 500-750 hour mark if I'm not liking it?
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Old 03-23-2019, 12:42 AM   #30  
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Why wouldnít you like it?
Apart from working for a scumbag operator itís about the teaching, working with other people, being able to motivate and critique without being overbearing.
Think back to the best instructor youíve ever had and the worst.
Why were they the best or the worst?
Your commercial certificate allows you to work as a pilot.
How you fill this in is your prerogative.
In general every entry level job has its limitations and usefulness.

Letís take banner towing as itís the easiest to explain.
Banner towing is only good for Total Time. No cross country, no night, no IFR no approaches.
Stick and rudder skills maybe but Iíve never made a better aeronautical decision because I flew tailwheel.
So take a guess maybe 3-400 hrs and then itís served itís purpose and you need to start doing something else.

Iím not going to go though every job out there but letís take a look at flight instruction;
Total Time, night, XC, IFR, approaches and Multi Engine time (CFI,CFII,MEI)
and......CRM skills.
At some point your pilot skills will plateau and youíll just become an increasingly better instructor.
If you care about how you do your job that is. That point is probably around the 1000-1200 hr mark.
Now you just start doing more of the same without increasing the complexity or depth of what you do.

So back to your original question.
What will serve YOUR progression and skills as a pilot more?

Flight instruction.
Itís not about how fast you get there itís how well you develop your skills and this is not the same pace for everybody.
Being mediocre before moving to your next step and only doing that long enough that you barely qualify for the next and you have to hang on by your fingernails and then....ad nauseum.
Youíre not doing anybody any favors that way. Yourself included.

Used to know a guy chasing the dream.
Was a mediocre CFI, dinged an airplane with a student. Bailed on the flight school with no notice to chase a single engine turboprop job, got fired after three months ( he says he left though ) then he goes hopskipping through two Part 91 SIC jobs is now trotting around the airport as he ďflies a LearĒ.....

No you donít. You have a SIC type and never been sent to formal training and you wouldnít know wtf to do if the guy next to you keels over at FL450.

By now in the last 3 years heís had 5(!) jobs. Donít be that guy.
He just made himself ineligible for hire at most places. Theyíre just not going to take a dude like this serious.
Donít be that guy.

Take flight instruction as a very rewarding entry level job that needs to be taken serious.
CFII, MEI, 141 Check instructor, assistant Chief Flight instructor, all achievable in the first year.

Now THAT is going to get you noticed for your second job.
Excelling there will get you noticed for your third job.

Excelling there will get you noticed for your 4th job.

And the majors are a complete lottery.
Meeting or exceeding the requirements are by no means a guarantee for anything. Multi thousand hour pilots with 3-4 type ratings canít get the time of day.
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