LAfrequentflyer

Kill Bill,

I've heard the ATC recording of the pilot declaring an emergency and heading back to MEM for a landing...

-LA

contrails

Here's a summary of the FedEx 705 event:

http://www.suite101.com/article.cfm/...f_flight/79391

Kill Bill

thankfully, we never have to see those stupid films in recurrent again. although i think that block of instruction has now been taken over by the sexual harassment block.

captain_drew

You need to go back and read a little history, then you could put things in their proper chronological order and not ask stupid questions like that.

HAD the crew been ‘carrying’ they might have come back to fly another day. Instead of having to do ‘hand to hand’ combat, sustaining grievous wounds, the Captain (Dave Sanders - a CLOSE personal friend of mine) would have had ample time to reach in his Jepp bag, grab his pistol and dispatch the scum bag . . while he was whacking on the other two.

None of the 3 ever returned to fly again, to the best of my knowledge, due to the severity of their injuries.

I know you were trying to make a point, but you just made yourself look stupid. Calloway WAS ‘screened’ in the post-Dole rules, but I guess the min wage screeners didn’t see the threat in a spear gun. The only thing you do by screening the crews is take away their right to self defense.

Another POINT. Responsibility for THAT near tragedy (on the wider scale) rests FIRMLY in the lap of management. They knew -and Auburn knew that he was about to be fired. HOW they ever let him get on a jumpseat under those circumstances is criminal negligence.

Chris

http://www.tailstrike.com/070494.htm

There's a CVR transcript from 705. Really terrible, really sad. Thank God they survived.

captain_drew

And .. your point is?

It’s illegal to cross the border into this country without the proper documents too. But, no authority seems to take that too seriously.

I was raised with; am comfortable with firearms and had the ‘CC’ permit . . and was willing to live with the consequences of my actions of defending myself; my crew, my employer’s jet -and the customer’s boxes . . . And being a freighter pilot, I guess no one ever thought it necessary to give us no steenkin’ “talk”. Never heard of it.

The things that we had to worry about were fellow employees (they let anyone on the JS back then) and New Yawk (er Long Giland) scum bags who might break into your hotel room.

Ho hum . . I think the Statute of Limitations has expired.

ComputerGuy

Yikes. I just read it, and want to vomit.

May Calloway rot in prison.

captain_drew

He WILL !

This is a perfect, shining example of what you get with Equal Opportunity and Affirmative Action

Calloway skated through life, by virtue of his African American persuasion. Admitted to Stanford as an Affirmative Action selection. Could not have made it on his academic standing. Stanford, if you do not know it, does NOT give “grades”. It’s how the profs “feel” about you. I know it enjoys a ‘reputation’, but some of the dumbest slugs I have ever met are Stanford grads.

He got into Navy Flight to put an “X” in someone’s box and was not washed out the several times he should have been due to “preferences” another person of a different persuasion would NOT have benefitted from.

When he finally got to his VS fleet squadron, he was always behind the power curve and was never upgraded to Aircraft Commander, because the NATOPS Officer, XO and CO recommended he be a permanent co-pilot, due to his ineptitude. The S-3, BTW, is one of the easiest a/c in the world to fly. So, he was pretty much behind the power curve.

He lied about his flight time and experience on his application and was hired and subsequently fired at Flying Tigers. First time what he had going did not work for him.

He lied about his flight time and experience on his application at FredEx, not able to know that his former employer would be subsequently acquired in a buy out deal .

That’s when the wheels finally started coming off. Several Captains had written him up, but management more or less ignored it, due to the Affirmative Action factor. It was not until a former FTL Flight Manager happened to run into him and remember that he had been fired at the old place that folks started digging around.

The rest, as they say, is history. Didn’t take much to uncover the falsification of the application. All the guys who knew him in the Navy could NOT believe he had been hired at an airline. Maybe if he had gone to one of the infamous Affirmative Action employers, like United, he would not have run into someone he had worked for at FTL and . . . . .just glad the 3 DC-10 guys had their Wheaties that morning. I wish they had been ‘packing’ !

ComputerGuy

Actually, from reading the CVR transcript, it sounds like the crew had the opportunity to kill him and didn't. I've never been in that sort of situation before (and hope I never have to be), but it really sounds like the two guys holding him down were in a position to kill him but were only going to do it if they absolutely had to.

FLYBOYMATTHEW

I think you missed the cynicism in my post. I support a flight crew's right to defend themselves. If security was handled that day the way it was "in the old days", Calloway could have had a firearm as well. He went through the same security checks that you or I, or the FedEx crew on that fateful day went through. My point was that the threat could come from any direction. I agree with you on many of your points. In fact, I myself would consider getting a C&C permit if it were possible (and practical) to take it with you on trips, and particularly on overnights.

That being said, do you feel that EVERY pilot you know should be allowed to carry a firearm? This would mean that the Auburn Calloways of our ranks would have that right as well. So would the NW pilot who committed suicide by cop by brandishing a gun during a domestic dispute call a couple of years ago. I'm sure you too can come up with similar examples supporting the belief that not every pilot should be allowed to pack. If they were, I believe it would result in more cases of negligence than cases where it proved to be a prudent security or self-defense tool. Case in point...the FFDO who showed up for work drunk with his firearm a year or so ago. He did in fact pass through the highly selective and discriminatory process of becoming an FFDO in the first place. That logically begs the next question. If not every pilot should be allowed to carry, who do you feel should be given the power to decide who carries and who doesn't?

Incidentally, I also don't think you need to call someone "stupid" to make your point. This is exactly the type of passive aggressive behavior that SHOULD preclude one from being allowed to carry a firearm in the cockpit.