mshunter

PFJ is a joke. WHy pay to fly, when you can get paid to fly?

atpwannabe

This is what I posted at jetcareers.com concerning the ATP/Gulfstream alliance/partnership:


All that money....79K. That's crazy.

I will say that I've heard that some guys are going there with their CPL w/ME rating and doing the FO program. Costs something like 29K and at one time, GIA was refunding 5K at the end of training. It looks like they were refunding to much and now it's only 2K...(250 x $8/hr).

The argument I've heard is that you get the tprop time whether you're hired or not. Although it's perceived as an "unethical" way to accrue tprop experience.....250 hrs of tprop time is 250hrs of tprop time.....no matter how you slice it. Does it give someone an edge or preference in terms of hiring? Probably. It's hard to say. I guess it just depends on who is on the hiring board of the company where you are interviewing.

Personally, I can't fault anyone for the road in which they chose to achieve their goal. It's not for me to judge and it's not the road I'm taking although at one time I considered it. Sure we all have standards when it comes to gaining more experience, written and unwritten, but what I do is to be the best pilot I can be and will try to position myself to be in the right place at the right time. I believe it's more than flying. Attitude, personality, and first impressions are huge in choosing potential employees. I gotta ask myself, "Do I fit the company and does the company fit me?

If there is a flying position out there meant for me.....I'll get it.


JMO.

NWA320pilot

At what point does someone stop paying for time/experience and start getting paid? 250 hours, 1000 hours, 10,000 hours, should you keep paying until you get hired by a major? This is the problem with our industry, guys are willing to not just fly for inadequate wages, not for free, but actually PAY someone to let them fly...... Nobody should be flying as a SIC for free once they have obtained their commercial ticket.

atpwannabe

Honestly, I can't say.

Gulfstream has idenitified a niche and has instituted the "feature/benefit" approach. Flight academies/schools offer paid training as a platform of sorts to increase one's marketability. We all pay for training in one form or another whether it's in the form of money, time, effort or what have you; tangible or intangible. I think that if Gulfstream isolated their training program, and by this I mean not allocating 30% of their actual flying to students, then it would be received/perceived differently. However by doing that, I think that it would dramatically increase the cost of the training based upon what their overhead and other expenses are.

If turboprop training were offered like SE and piston ME training.....I would say....200-250 hours would be the "moral" or "ethical" cut off as long as it was offered and accomplished purely in a training environment.




atp

Dan64456

Thanks for your responses all... Especially wrxpilot Unbiased and non depression induced =).

So anyways I went down to Ari-Ben a few weeks ago to check it out... Seemed like a really nice school and the living arrangements were very comfortable as well. Even back-seated on one of the training flights in the Duchess... Awesome experience. Anyway, their training is 200 hrs multi - no sim (yet)... all ratings private thru MEI for 40 grand (after 3 months it's 5 or 600 a month for the apartments... but first 3 are included, so the faster u work the better off you will be... hopefully the planets align correctly for the maintenance and weather, etc. ) They even bought me dinner =) They are actually moving into the old pan-am building and they have some kind of CRJ sim in there from what I understand, so it's probably a matter of time before they start offering somekind of add on program with that device.

Seems like a better deal that ATP. No 90-day pressure. Cheaper price and more real flight hours. Just gotta stay within range of 1/2 a tank + 45 minutes so I don't have to pay for fuel

Only thing now is to wait until this summer for the FAA color vision standard change rumor again. Time will tell.

Shrek

You are a COLOR BLIND PFTer ?! THAT is a new one.........enjoy.

Dan64456

First of all. I'm not color blind. Second of all. Doesn't everyone pay for training?


I'm looking for valid input here... please hold the insults to a minimum. I haven't even committed to anything yet and you are already attacking me.

atpwannabe

Book'em Danno!!!


atp

mshunter

I used to have respect for you. Then I read this. Now I understand why the industry is where it is. Imagine the cost if you had to just obtain a G5 type, never mind a 1900. Look at spending in the neighborhood of 30-50k, AND NO TIME IN THE PLANE. If we all had an attitude like this, we would all be working for 1st year regional pay at a major after 15 years of service.

atpwannabe

Whether you have respect for me is neither here nor there for me and has no effect whatsoever. The above post is merely the way how I see Gulfstream's PFT program and offered what I believe to be a viable solution to their quagmire.

You can get GIII, IV and V training.....ever heard of Flight Safety International? I'm sure there are some other facilities that offer that type training as well. How many hours of training that is accrued is left up to the professionals who are quite capable to make such a determination.

I'm not one of them.



atp