ATP Airline Transport Professionals
06-15-2007, 01:28 PM
#41
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: E145 Right Side
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by kdoner
umm... just my 2 cents as a youngster who is "ignorant"...
i've had 5 instructors, my instrument checkride is next week and i have 115 hours...from my "little" experience...i've had 2 instructors that are 40-50yrs old, ex airline pilot, with 25000000000 hours... and i've had 3 instructors 20-23 yrs old.. 250-400TT...
from MY experience.. i've benefitted... oops.. i mean.. benefited (since we're counting spelling i wouldnt want my 2 cents VOID from spelling) i have benfited more from the young instructors, because there is no intimidation factor, and there is more of a friend/instructor relationship. I can let them know when i have a problem, or if i'm clueless about what he's talking about..
with the experienced guys, i felt intimidated, never questioned their reasoning, nothing... i used to look for every excuse not to fly because i didnt know what i was supposed to know before the flight, and felt like i couldnt voice myself.
So i do believe that it is about personality, and how well you click, maybe its the other way around, where most the old guys have that personality, and the young guys are intimidating, and i just got the few that werent. But with these young guys, i'm not afraid to tell them they are wrong, or let them tell me i'm an idiot sometimes, opposed to the older guys, who wouldnt tell me i'm wrong because they were worried about discouraging me,
Each case is different, and we all have our opinions... theres mine...
i've had 5 instructors, my instrument checkride is next week and i have 115 hours...from my "little" experience...i've had 2 instructors that are 40-50yrs old, ex airline pilot, with 25000000000 hours... and i've had 3 instructors 20-23 yrs old.. 250-400TT...
from MY experience.. i've benefitted... oops.. i mean.. benefited (since we're counting spelling i wouldnt want my 2 cents VOID from spelling) i have benfited more from the young instructors, because there is no intimidation factor, and there is more of a friend/instructor relationship. I can let them know when i have a problem, or if i'm clueless about what he's talking about..
with the experienced guys, i felt intimidated, never questioned their reasoning, nothing... i used to look for every excuse not to fly because i didnt know what i was supposed to know before the flight, and felt like i couldnt voice myself.
So i do believe that it is about personality, and how well you click, maybe its the other way around, where most the old guys have that personality, and the young guys are intimidating, and i just got the few that werent. But with these young guys, i'm not afraid to tell them they are wrong, or let them tell me i'm an idiot sometimes, opposed to the older guys, who wouldnt tell me i'm wrong because they were worried about discouraging me,
Each case is different, and we all have our opinions... theres mine...
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!! Thanks for helping me Plead my case
06-15-2007, 01:34 PM
#42
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
My problem with ATP is the 90 day program and lack of experience those CFI's have to be teaching. Not really old vs young CFI, or one personality vs another.
It's important to click with who you are working with, regardless of their age or experience level. That you feel intimidated by older, higher time, CFI's is unfortunate, since they have a vast knowledge base a low time CFI won't have.
It's important to click with who you are working with, regardless of their age or experience level. That you feel intimidated by older, higher time, CFI's is unfortunate, since they have a vast knowledge base a low time CFI won't have.
06-15-2007, 01:39 PM
#43
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2006
Position: Spartan
Posts: 3,652
Originally Posted by keiundraj
This is EXACTLY what I'm talking about!! Thanks for helping me Plead my case
06-15-2007, 01:56 PM
#45
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2007
Position: E145 Right Side
Posts: 209
Originally Posted by Slice
You do realize that every time you seem to say that you are in agreement it's with a guy who has little to no experience and has yet to fly for a living?
Originally Posted by SaltyDog
I do see both sides. eg, my example about the military use of newly winged aviators as IP's. All of your 'detractors' here also see both sides. Different ways to express it though. We haven't even touched on complacency 
But that is the challenge for experienced or familiar folks. Even as you mentioned that some of your ATP CFI's wanted to blow off parts of a checklist (overly familiar thus complacent) which you declined (wisely) to do.
Maturity and professionalism is that antidote.
Antidote for inexperience is exposure in various operating environments. Read hours.
But that is the challenge for experienced or familiar folks. Even as you mentioned that some of your ATP CFI's wanted to blow off parts of a checklist (overly familiar thus complacent) which you declined (wisely) to do.
Maturity and professionalism is that antidote.
Antidote for inexperience is exposure in various operating environments. Read hours.
06-15-2007, 06:14 PM
#46
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: C152
Posts: 501
Ya know, in my experience (Not just learning how to fly mind you) it really comes down to YOUR personality. Myself, I like flying with somebody that has a lot of experience and is older, more mature, more relaxed and has a firmer grasp on the concept of teaching.
I will never say that you aren't qualified to be a CFI because of your hours, lord knows that soon -I- will be an instructor with wet ink on my certificate. I -WILL- say that teaching someone how to fly isn't just knowing how to fly yourself. You really need to understand the learning process. I spent quite a bit of time instructing various subjects in the Marine Corps before I embarked on this career. Needless to say I learned quite a bit about how I learn and also that everybody has a different style of learning... and teaching for that matter.
And my personal opinion? It's best to fly with a mix of the new school/old school. My first instructor was a 60+ year old Vietnam vet that made instructing a post retirement career. He owns his own school/pilot association and unlike some "dinosaurs" has a very firm grasp on the new technology in the field today (GPS, glass panels etc.). I absorbed an amazing amount of information from that guy and he was truly an outstanding teacher that was very knowledgeable in his chosen field. Now I am embarking on a flight academy where most of my instructors are going to be younger than me. I think over the course of my learning, being exposed to both types of instructing will only serve to help me.
So honestly what I'm trying to say is everybody is right here. It depends on your own personal learning preference.
I will never say that you aren't qualified to be a CFI because of your hours, lord knows that soon -I- will be an instructor with wet ink on my certificate. I -WILL- say that teaching someone how to fly isn't just knowing how to fly yourself. You really need to understand the learning process. I spent quite a bit of time instructing various subjects in the Marine Corps before I embarked on this career. Needless to say I learned quite a bit about how I learn and also that everybody has a different style of learning... and teaching for that matter.
And my personal opinion? It's best to fly with a mix of the new school/old school. My first instructor was a 60+ year old Vietnam vet that made instructing a post retirement career. He owns his own school/pilot association and unlike some "dinosaurs" has a very firm grasp on the new technology in the field today (GPS, glass panels etc.). I absorbed an amazing amount of information from that guy and he was truly an outstanding teacher that was very knowledgeable in his chosen field. Now I am embarking on a flight academy where most of my instructors are going to be younger than me. I think over the course of my learning, being exposed to both types of instructing will only serve to help me.
So honestly what I'm trying to say is everybody is right here. It depends on your own personal learning preference.
06-15-2007, 06:49 PM
#47
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: UPS 757/767 Capt ONT
Posts: 4,357
"The problem is this isn't a post about people who's flying for a living...."
So, now everybody who isn't learning how to fly needs to shut up and let those that are tell us how it is. Works for me....
So, now everybody who isn't learning how to fly needs to shut up and let those that are tell us how it is. Works for me....
06-15-2007, 09:13 PM
#48
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2007
Position: JS32 FO
Posts: 848
90 days still seems to be a really short amount of time to absorb enough information to effectively teach another student. Aviation seems to be the only field we do this in. Teachers have at least 4 years of learning and then at least a semester of student teaching. Military DIs aren't recently minted officers. As a student, I was slightly unnerved by the fact that my instructor was relatively new. He won me over by being very thorough and professional. But imagine the shock of hearing that the guy/gal you're learning from started flying 6 months ago.
06-15-2007, 09:35 PM
#49
APC co-founder
Joined APC: Feb 2005
Position: B777
Posts: 5,853
Originally Posted by de727ups
"The problem is this isn't a post about people who's flying for a living...."
So, now everybody who isn't learning how to fly needs to shut up and let those that are tell us how it is. Works for me....
So, now everybody who isn't learning how to fly needs to shut up and let those that are tell us how it is. Works for me....
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