Please help me choose between Mesa or PanAm
12-09-2006 | 10:24 PM
#12
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Likes: 0
Yup, I am an instructor at an FBO that does both 91 and 141. In my oppinion, 141 doesn't gain anything unless you want to get the commercial total time requirement dropped, but you still have to get the time somehow, and you don't have to do private 141 for that tt break. I try to get my private students to go part 91 because it gives so much more flexability, and can take less time and end up costing less.
12-09-2006 | 11:18 PM
#13
Bored
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 445
Likes: 0
From: Grumman Torture Device (weekends only)
He's got to do a 141 school in order to use the GI Bill...91 is not an option for that AFAIK.
That said, use the GI Bill to go to a real college, get a degree, get your PPL on the side. If you decide to continue flying, get your CFI, build time and/or work your military network to get in on a corporate gig at low hours and decent pay. By then you'll be far, far more informed about the industry and better able to see where you want to go.
If you choose to not be poor you've got a real degree and can go do something else.
Better yet, pick up an officer program or go AF/NROTC or USMC PLC, get the military to pay for ALL of your school, then go fly with them and walk out the door with 2000 turbine hours, proof for the airlines you are trainable, a great network and no debt. And you can use your GI Bill (like I did) to get your ATP and a type rating (I got a B737 one).
Sorry for the long reply...that counts for $.07.
Spongebob
PS: Feel free to PM me...
That said, use the GI Bill to go to a real college, get a degree, get your PPL on the side. If you decide to continue flying, get your CFI, build time and/or work your military network to get in on a corporate gig at low hours and decent pay. By then you'll be far, far more informed about the industry and better able to see where you want to go.
If you choose to not be poor you've got a real degree and can go do something else.
Better yet, pick up an officer program or go AF/NROTC or USMC PLC, get the military to pay for ALL of your school, then go fly with them and walk out the door with 2000 turbine hours, proof for the airlines you are trainable, a great network and no debt. And you can use your GI Bill (like I did) to get your ATP and a type rating (I got a B737 one).
Sorry for the long reply...that counts for $.07.
Spongebob
PS: Feel free to PM me...
12-10-2006 | 06:13 AM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,652
Likes: 0
From: Spartan
Mesa is a sinking ship, you wouldn't board the Titanic knowing what you know now, would you? Don't do it!
12-10-2006 | 04:33 PM
#15
Prime Minister/Moderator
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 44,914
Likes: 695
From: Engines Turn or People Swim
Yup, I am an instructor at an FBO that does both 91 and 141. In my oppinion, 141 doesn't gain anything unless you want to get the commercial total time requirement dropped, but you still have to get the time somehow, and you don't have to do private 141 for that tt break. I try to get my private students to go part 91 because it gives so much more flexability, and can take less time and end up costing less.
141 paperwork is so cumbersome that schools really only use it to attract VA students...but then they jack up their rates, so you end up paying almost as much out-of-pocket, and the school gets your MGIB. You will be money ahead if you just pay for traditional part 91 flight training with a loan or whatever and save the VA money for college. You WILL need a 4 year degree...do NOT kid yourself on this (or let anyone else kid you).
I understand how the big flight schools appeal to military folks...you are used to a package deal with a lot of structure, and that is what they offer. Unfortunately they charge WAY too much for it, and they can get away with it because people don't know any better. The 91 world requires more initiative and living by your wits, but you will save a ton of dough and learn a LOT more.
The biggest thing wrong with MAPD is that you are stuck at mesa for years...it really doesn't get any worse than that. I would quite flying if I had to go back to mesa.
12-10-2006 | 10:14 PM
#16
Line Holder
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,062
Likes: 2
From: FO, looking left
Mercedes Benz or a Ford Pinto
Lobster or Roman noodles
Gulfstream 5 or Cessna 150
..........
Pan Am Academy or MAPD
Sorry, I needed something to really help me convey my opinion to you. When I saw the title of this thread, I knew there was no question. Pan Am for sure.
You are getting out of the military. In order to have a decent career in aviation, you need two things right now.
1. A 4 year college degree
2. All your pilot licenses and ratings
If you decide not to get a 4 year college degree, you are costing yourself a good MILLION(s) dollars over your career. The fact is if you don't get a 4 year college degree, your career will likely end at a regional airline, making $90,000 a year. With a college degree, your career is much more likely to end at a major airline making $150-180,000 a year. BIG DIFFERENCE! And that adds up over 10,20,30 years!
Here is why you want to go with Pan Am. At MAPD, you will spend 2 years getting your basic licenses and ratings, and a worthless associates degree. I say worthless because in aviation, an associates degree is going to open the same doors that a high school degree will open. At Pan Am, you will spend something like 8-10 months getting your licenses and ratings. Mesa pilot developement is a waste of over a year of your life!
Pan Am will give you CFI/CFII/MEI certificates. You will be a much better pilot, and when you get interviewed at another airline (because you won't spend long at Mesa), your odds of getting hired a lot better if you were an instructor. They say you are three times as likely to remember things if you teach it to someone else (hence why MOST airline pilots were instructors at some point in their life.)
You don't want to go to Mesa. Rickair flew for Mesa, and he is telling you he would quit flying if he had to go back to Mesa. Pretty profound! Mesa is a craphole. Just stay away!
To sum it up, if you go to Pan Am, you will get your 4 year college degree and do flight training while in college. Afterwards, you will instruct for about a year (become a much better pilot), move onto a good regional, and eventually onto the cherished jobs in aviation, captain at a major airline! (making good money and enjoying life)
If you go to MAPD, you will spend 2 years getting your associates and flight training. Then you will fly for Mesa (making LESS than you would as a flight instructor). You will be stuck at Mesa for several years because you won't be as marketable to airlines without instructor time. When you get enough experience to finally leave Mesa, you will probably go to another regional (because majors won't likely hire you without a 4 year degree), starting over at $20,000 a year an reworking your way up the latter. You will probably retire flying for a regional airline.
Or after spending 2 years at MAPD, you might decide that a 4 year degree is crucial to your future success, and go to college. But that route would put you 2 years behind the other way.
There is no question in my mind. I am a big supporter of FBO flight training, but PanAm is a fair airline academy, especially if you have VA benefits to pay for it. Don't sell you career and yourself short by going to Mesa.
Lobster or Roman noodles
Gulfstream 5 or Cessna 150
..........
Pan Am Academy or MAPD
Sorry, I needed something to really help me convey my opinion to you. When I saw the title of this thread, I knew there was no question. Pan Am for sure.
You are getting out of the military. In order to have a decent career in aviation, you need two things right now.
1. A 4 year college degree
2. All your pilot licenses and ratings
If you decide not to get a 4 year college degree, you are costing yourself a good MILLION(s) dollars over your career. The fact is if you don't get a 4 year college degree, your career will likely end at a regional airline, making $90,000 a year. With a college degree, your career is much more likely to end at a major airline making $150-180,000 a year. BIG DIFFERENCE! And that adds up over 10,20,30 years!
Here is why you want to go with Pan Am. At MAPD, you will spend 2 years getting your basic licenses and ratings, and a worthless associates degree. I say worthless because in aviation, an associates degree is going to open the same doors that a high school degree will open. At Pan Am, you will spend something like 8-10 months getting your licenses and ratings. Mesa pilot developement is a waste of over a year of your life!
Pan Am will give you CFI/CFII/MEI certificates. You will be a much better pilot, and when you get interviewed at another airline (because you won't spend long at Mesa), your odds of getting hired a lot better if you were an instructor. They say you are three times as likely to remember things if you teach it to someone else (hence why MOST airline pilots were instructors at some point in their life.)
You don't want to go to Mesa. Rickair flew for Mesa, and he is telling you he would quit flying if he had to go back to Mesa. Pretty profound! Mesa is a craphole. Just stay away!
To sum it up, if you go to Pan Am, you will get your 4 year college degree and do flight training while in college. Afterwards, you will instruct for about a year (become a much better pilot), move onto a good regional, and eventually onto the cherished jobs in aviation, captain at a major airline! (making good money and enjoying life)
If you go to MAPD, you will spend 2 years getting your associates and flight training. Then you will fly for Mesa (making LESS than you would as a flight instructor). You will be stuck at Mesa for several years because you won't be as marketable to airlines without instructor time. When you get enough experience to finally leave Mesa, you will probably go to another regional (because majors won't likely hire you without a 4 year degree), starting over at $20,000 a year an reworking your way up the latter. You will probably retire flying for a regional airline.
Or after spending 2 years at MAPD, you might decide that a 4 year degree is crucial to your future success, and go to college. But that route would put you 2 years behind the other way.
There is no question in my mind. I am a big supporter of FBO flight training, but PanAm is a fair airline academy, especially if you have VA benefits to pay for it. Don't sell you career and yourself short by going to Mesa.
12-11-2006 | 04:46 AM
#18
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 623
Likes: 0
From: Flight Instructor
Yup, I am an instructor at an FBO that does both 91 and 141. In my oppinion, 141 doesn't gain anything unless you want to get the commercial total time requirement dropped, but you still have to get the time somehow, and you don't have to do private 141 for that tt break. I try to get my private students to go part 91 because it gives so much more flexability, and can take less time and end up costing less.
12-11-2006 | 04:49 AM
#19
Che Guevara
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 6,408
Likes: 0
He's got to do a 141 school in order to use the GI Bill...91 is not an option for that AFAIK.
That said, use the GI Bill to go to a real college, get a degree, get your PPL on the side. If you decide to continue flying, get your CFI, build time and/or work your military network to get in on a corporate gig at low hours and decent pay. By then you'll be far, far more informed about the industry and better able to see where you want to go.
If you choose to not be poor you've got a real degree and can go do something else.
Better yet, pick up an officer program or go AF/NROTC or USMC PLC, get the military to pay for ALL of your school, then go fly with them and walk out the door with 2000 turbine hours, proof for the airlines you are trainable, a great network and no debt. And you can use your GI Bill (like I did) to get your ATP and a type rating (I got a B737 one).
Sorry for the long reply...that counts for $.07.
Spongebob
PS: Feel free to PM me...
That said, use the GI Bill to go to a real college, get a degree, get your PPL on the side. If you decide to continue flying, get your CFI, build time and/or work your military network to get in on a corporate gig at low hours and decent pay. By then you'll be far, far more informed about the industry and better able to see where you want to go.
If you choose to not be poor you've got a real degree and can go do something else.
Better yet, pick up an officer program or go AF/NROTC or USMC PLC, get the military to pay for ALL of your school, then go fly with them and walk out the door with 2000 turbine hours, proof for the airlines you are trainable, a great network and no debt. And you can use your GI Bill (like I did) to get your ATP and a type rating (I got a B737 one).
Sorry for the long reply...that counts for $.07.
Spongebob
PS: Feel free to PM me...
I'm ex-military, and have trained and taught at both 141 and 91 schools...
12-11-2006 | 04:59 AM
#20
Self Employed.
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,120
Likes: 0
From: Corporate Pilot
Mesa
The Mesa thing has been around for a long time now. I wish I had done it, but as a youngster my mind was polluted with idealism. Everyone who I know that choose that route had a much easier ride than I. It is much better to be a struggling 300 hour FO in a new RJ than to be in the right seat of a 152 with a student trying to kill you. I am sure that the first year is difficult but how much help can 1000 hours of instructing really be to an airline? The flying has little in common.
Seems to me that in a few years all regionals will be hiring from cadet programs anyway.
SkyHigh
Seems to me that in a few years all regionals will be hiring from cadet programs anyway.
SkyHigh
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