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Is an expensive flight instructor worth it?

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Is an expensive flight instructor worth it?

Old 03-04-2015, 07:13 PM
  #11  
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Although prices vary by the area of the country you live in, $60 seems to be about the going rate nowadays if you go through your local flight school. Only 10 years ago, it was only about half that. God knows what it's going to be 10 years from now but by then I'll be instructing and not in training. I bet it will double again in another 10 years, we're already heading in that direction. Expect to see $100 an hour in the not too distant future, the current rates are cheap compared to what we're gonna see soon. Flight schools just can't make money on the planes anymore. I talked to a flight instructor recently who actually told me his flight school was up to $70 an hour (I live in the northeast, the most expensive part of the country).

The bottom line is this: it's up to you. What good is an expensive instructor who can teach well, but you don't get along? Or vice versa? I've gone through a lot of instructors who I didn't like and finally found one I did like. Now, we're quickly blowing through my training and I'm doing great, all because of good chemistry (and the fact that he teaches well, but that's besides the point). Before I talked to my instructor I talked to several instructors to try and find one that would be a good match. I could tell over the phone that it wasn't a match in each case, didn't always have to fly with them; sometimes you can tell from a person's demeanor (or in person) what to expect if/when you fly together. If they are a d****bag over the phone, chances are they'll be similar in the airplane.

Most people say to take a flight with an instructor before deciding on them. My opinion is, no need, decide it on the ground. You save time, money, and aggravation that way. It was frustrating going through all the instructors I did before I found the right one, but the wait was well worth it. Your training is expensive- and while that engine is running it's all about you- DON'T hesitate to fire your instructor on the drop of a hat. I've done it many times and never looked back.
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Old 03-06-2015, 08:47 PM
  #12  
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7thgear:

I found myself in your same shoes a few years back while working on my CFI. Both of these CFI's was pretty much the only show in town when it came to teaching initial CFI's. Anyway,to echo what the rest of the group is saying , go with your gut. Fly with other CFI's. Just beacuse someone is a low time (cheaper rate) CFI doesn't mean that he/she are bad instructors. AND just beacuse they've been around for awhile doesn't make them Sky God's either. In the end, you gotta make every dollar count. Good Luck!
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Old 03-20-2015, 03:10 AM
  #13  
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You get what you pay for.... usually

No doubt there are "better" instructors at half the rate of some. The advise about interviewing the prospective instructor and requesting references (and following up to interview them) is the best advice.

All said, consider this. A flight school charging $30 for instructor time, how much is the instructor getting? Even if they are keeping the whole thing, they are earning an income at the rate of $30,000 annually if they fly 1000 hours. Sure some put in more hours a year, but you get my point.

At $30 per hour, you are getting someone who is either doing it for a hobby/fun or is building time, looking for the door. Transit instructors are a facet of the industry but you run the risk that you will be trading out instructors while completing a long course (like an inst rating).
Is that good good for your training? Some times change is a good thing, many times not; but you can't predict nor control events when your teacher is looking for a better deal. At $30 an hour, just about any other job flying is a step up, just saying....
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Old 03-24-2015, 06:07 AM
  #14  
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No they're probably not worth it.

If they won't spend a moment of their time with you without charging you, stay away. If they don't want to be a mentor, run.

Frankly when I was learning to fly my CFIs were young guys who wanted to be airline pilots. They were motivated, real and they didn't charge me for ground. I had a different instructor later, older Lt Col who wanted to be an airline pilot, he was awesome too and spent a lot of time at the airport with me off the clock. I felt with these guys like we were all in it together and they certainly had a passion for flying. Flying > Money.

I decided that was the kind of CFI I wanted to be. Save your money and put it into flying because after all we're there to fly. When I instructed from 97-00 my school charged $25-$35 per hour for me and paid me $5.50-$7/hr. I didn't charge for ground either despite doing full blown ground session. I wanted that time to focus on learning and not have a student have a clock running in his head trying to calculate how much this was costing him. I wanted them to get it, and if they weren't getting it (but trying) then I needed to keep attacking it from different angles until they got it. The point was learn. And the better they learned the less time we wasted in the plane and they got done on time and on budget. But at my school we'd solo guys in 5-10 hours and private and instrument ratings were done in the min time or something was wrong.

Of course sometimes we grabbed a football and went out back and tossed that around while doing ground and a white board wasn't necessary, but hey, that's what you get when it's free.

You can have very good CFIs for cheap. I've met the $100/hr CFI here in Atlanta recently and I can tell you they weren't worth a dime of it. Give me the kid with 300-400 hours that has a lot of enthusiasm. The 600-1000 hour CFI has enthusiasm and experience and the 1200-1500 has a lot of experience and little enthusiasm. You do burn out if you put a lot into it. Just do.

If a CFI doesn't give a damn about anything other than your credit card then don't give a damn about them and move on.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:03 AM
  #15  
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7th Gear-

Have you asked the instructor if he give you a better rate? If he is a good instructor and you get along, then it wouldn't hurt to ask. On the other hand, if the issues you mentioned mean enough to you, perhaps it's time to move on regardless.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:35 AM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post
I didn't charge for ground either despite doing full blown ground session.
This is ridiculous and nearly as unethical as charging someone for something that didn't happen. The repercussions if this get ingrained into all who are involved and it ends up as shooting yourself in the foot, causing instructors to get paid less, working for free, expecting to not have to pay for things, and so on. I would never, ever, recommend this, just as I would never recommend charging someone for "lunch" when you fly out to someplace for it or charging for time without providing any benefit to the student. If you can't afford to be a pilot, don't be a pilot, or find some other way to do it, or take a longer time doing it. You need to have morals and stand for something. Offering "freebies" is not doing that.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:37 AM
  #17  
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Do yourself a favor, get a tailwheel, glider, or float rating before your instrument rating. These ratings require actual airmanship, and will expose whatever bad habits you picked up flying trainers.

While Cessna's (and Piper, Beech) auto-land gear saves a lot for the insurance companies, it also enables sloppy flying, and there are way too many instructors out there who teach sloppy flying.

Then you will get more out of your t/o and landings while you pursue the instrument rating.
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Old 03-26-2015, 09:56 AM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by JamesNoBrakes View Post
This is ridiculous and nearly as unethical as charging someone for something that didn't happen. The repercussions if this get ingrained into all who are involved and it ends up as shooting yourself in the foot, causing instructors to get paid less, working for free, expecting to not have to pay for things, and so on. I would never, ever, recommend this, just as I would never recommend charging someone for "lunch" when you fly out to someplace for it or charging for time without providing any benefit to the student. If you can't afford to be a pilot, don't be a pilot, or find some other way to do it, or take a longer time doing it. You need to have morals and stand for something. Offering "freebies" is not doing that.
I agree, and this is where the "undercut to get ahead" mentality starts. As an independent instructor I gave 1 30 min intro lesson free of charge, later I changed it to $15.00 to stop free-loaders. When I did ground, I billed by the hr up to 1.5 hrs, after that I billed. If the student was late often, I also started billing. However, I didn't treat it like a law practice, where the literally bill for mailing a letter. Know this, the golf and tennis instructors aren't giving it away for free.
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Old 03-26-2015, 02:00 PM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid View Post
No they're probably not worth it.

If they won't spend a moment of their time with you without charging you, stay away. If they don't want to be a mentor, run.

Frankly when I was learning to fly my CFIs were young guys who wanted to be airline pilots. They were motivated, real and they didn't charge me for ground. I had a different instructor later, older Lt Col who wanted to be an airline pilot, he was awesome too and spent a lot of time at the airport with me off the clock. I felt with these guys like we were all in it together and they certainly had a passion for flying. Flying > Money.

I decided that was the kind of CFI I wanted to be. Save your money and put it into flying because after all we're there to fly. When I instructed from 97-00 my school charged $25-$35 per hour for me and paid me $5.50-$7/hr. I didn't charge for ground either despite doing full blown ground session. I wanted that time to focus on learning and not have a student have a clock running in his head trying to calculate how much this was costing him. I wanted them to get it, and if they weren't getting it (but trying) then I needed to keep attacking it from different angles until they got it. The point was learn. And the better they learned the less time we wasted in the plane and they got done on time and on budget. But at my school we'd solo guys in 5-10 hours and private and instrument ratings were done in the min time or something was wrong.

Of course sometimes we grabbed a football and went out back and tossed that around while doing ground and a white board wasn't necessary, but hey, that's what you get when it's free.

You can have very good CFIs for cheap. I've met the $100/hr CFI here in Atlanta recently and I can tell you they weren't worth a dime of it. Give me the kid with 300-400 hours that has a lot of enthusiasm. The 600-1000 hour CFI has enthusiasm and experience and the 1200-1500 has a lot of experience and little enthusiasm. You do burn out if you put a lot into it. Just do.

If a CFI doesn't give a damn about anything other than your credit card then don't give a damn about them and move on.
I completely disagree.

I would advise students to stay away from instructors that don't charge for ground time. It basically tells me that that don't even value their services or are purely in it to build time. It's unprofessional.

I also would advise students to avoid paying $40 per hour (or whatever rate) for a CFI that only gets $8. If the school is keeping more than a few dollars per hour that's a red flag.

On the other side of the coin, it's disappointing to see CFI's willing to work for nothing while the school makes money off their back. It's bad for the profession, and sets a presadence that unfortunately finds its way into the 135/121 world. A CFI should not feel guilty or bad charging an appropriate rate from handshake to handshake.
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Old 03-28-2015, 01:51 PM
  #20  
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I paid $140 wet with an instructor for a Cessna 152. It was around $195 wet with an instructor for a Cessna 172.

Instructor rates are around $45-50 in Maryland.
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