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Old 01-24-2007, 09:16 AM   #21  
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The discussion in this thread has meandered away from the most important topic presented: what the heck is a "humanities" degree?!
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Old 01-24-2007, 10:55 AM   #22  
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Originally Posted by sigep_nm View Post
Okay so I finally went through all the paper work and such and came up with some figures as to what it cost me to go to the "real" Havard of the sky.
4 years tuition = 16000
Flight Training = 32000
Total = 48000
Outcome = 4 year college degree (yes in aviaiton, i'll explain later) Commercial multi, single, instrument, CFI, CFII, MEI
UND

So why does it benefit getting a college degree in aviation? You want to be a pilot right? Being a pilot is a matter of lifestyle, and experience. I can guarantee that my experience level is vastly higher than most if not all ATP grads. Why? Because I was emersed in it for four years, and you cant take that away nor replace it. In my four years at school I took two classes based solely on regional aircraft. The class was based off the same curriculumn that Horizon uses for the dash 8, and flight safety uses for the CRJ. I also have a strong background in gas turbine engines and advanced aerodynamics. That is just to name a few. I will be the first to admit that I dont know a whole lot about ATP's course work, but i think i can safely assume that there is a huge discrepency between the two. A college degree is not for everyone but it is an integral part of being a professional pilot. Some people believe and will say that piloting is a trade, but being a PROFESSIONAL requires you to emerse yourself in the career and make the effort to utilize all available resources to learn as much as you possibly can. Thats my 2 cents, prove me wrong if you would like, I am always open for INTELIGENT dialogue.

That is a reasonable price for all those ratings AND a 4 year degree.

But don't kid yourself, all that aviation emersion doesn't really matter when you get to the airlines. It is only available because it is interesting and fun, so schools can get students to pay for it. It is NOT driven by industry demand...airlines care about your flight experience, not where you went to school (unless it was ivy league or US service academy...you get a few points for that). Engineering programs, for example, are driven by industry demand...there are high-paying jobs available, but you have to graduate from an accredited program to get one.

I would still recommend a non-aviation degree as a fallback position (or areo engineering).
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Old 01-24-2007, 11:39 AM   #23  
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Originally Posted by sigep_nm View Post
Okay so I finally went through all the paper work and such and came up with some figures as to what it cost me to go to the "real" Havard of the sky.
4 years tuition = 16000
Flight Training = 32000
Total = 48000
Outcome = 4 year college degree (yes in aviaiton, i'll explain later) Commercial multi, single, instrument, CFI, CFII, MEI
UND
If your degree is recent, then I doubt that figure. It's low even for ND residents at UND. You have to include the full cost of the degree, even if you were spared the full cost due to scholarships and grants.
At any rate, that is a very reasonable price, but the debate centers around paying nonresident or private school tuition for an ultimately pointless degree.

Last edited by Uncle Bose; 01-24-2007 at 01:13 PM.
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:32 PM   #24  
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Get a 4 year degree in anything that interests you. Get it as cheaply as possible - mine was free thanks to the USAF in IT management. Back it up with industry certifications (CCNA / CCNP for IT, CFP for finance). Put your money into flight training at ATP and you'll be just fine for the airline industry.


-LAFF
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Old 01-24-2007, 12:35 PM   #25  
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If your degree is recent, then I doubt that figure. It's low even for ND residents at UND. You have to include the full cost of the degree, even if you were spared the full cost due to scholarships and grants.
At any rate, that is a very reasonable price, but the debate centers around paying nonresident or private school tuition for an ultimately pointless degree.

The real thing everyone has to do, is look how much it will cost them, how much their state schools will cost them, and then decide. It will also depend on how much each school offers you personally, if a state school were to offer you $10,000 a year in scholarships, and Riddle gave you a full ride (don't think it woul happen, but it could) then your probably better off with the full ride.

My only real advice on choosing a school/major is simple, do something you will enjoy and be interested in. If you don't do that, then there is no point in going to college.
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Old 01-26-2007, 09:51 AM   #26  
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The discussion in this thread has meandered away from the most important topic presented: what the heck is a "humanities" degree?!
This is what I am doing right now.
http://php.scripts.psu.edu/dept/iit/...nterdHuman.php

The reason I went a little crazy the last couple of weeks was because I thought I was wasting my time and money by doing a humanities degree. Also I as much as I love aviation I thought that I would thoroughly enjoy majoring in something related to aviation. The initial reason for my chosing the humanities degree is that I would not have to worry about a huge amount of a courseload as well as spending hours and hours studying and drowning into my studies. Although the humanities major has been kept me busy enough so far, I still manage to work full-time (which I have to in order to collect $ for my PPL). Now if I did something like engineering, I would have to put away getting my licenses until I graduate. Another reason is because, if I continued with this degree I can graduate by the summer of 08. Done deal. I am sticking to it. I want to get my PPL this summer, and it is very important that I do, and soon after I graduate I want to get a job and work on the rest of my ratings. I want to get a CFI job in about a year after graduating. I hope things will work out. And thanks for the kind comments.
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Old 01-27-2007, 12:57 PM   #27  
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Originally Posted by sigep_nm View Post
Okay so I finally went through all the paper work and such and came up with some figures as to what it cost me to go to the "real" Havard of the sky.
4 years tuition = 16000
Flight Training = 32000
Total = 48000
Outcome = 4 year college degree (yes in aviaiton, i'll explain later) Commercial multi, single, instrument, CFI, CFII, MEI
UND

So why does it benefit getting a college degree in aviation? You want to be a pilot right? Being a pilot is a matter of lifestyle, and experience. I can guarantee that my experience level is vastly higher than most if not all ATP grads. Why? Because I was emersed in it for four years, and you cant take that away nor replace it. In my four years at school I took two classes based solely on regional aircraft. The class was based off the same curriculumn that Horizon uses for the dash 8, and flight safety uses for the CRJ. I also have a strong background in gas turbine engines and advanced aerodynamics. That is just to name a few. I will be the first to admit that I dont know a whole lot about ATP's course work, but i think i can safely assume that there is a huge discrepency between the two. A college degree is not for everyone but it is an integral part of being a professional pilot. Some people believe and will say that piloting is a trade, but being a PROFESSIONAL requires you to emerse yourself in the career and make the effort to utilize all available resources to learn as much as you possibly can. Thats my 2 cents, prove me wrong if you would like, I am always open for INTELIGENT dialogue.
You can self promote if you like however the truth is that flying is a trade similar to being a crane operator. (The difference is that a crane operator is rewarded for having real skill and system knowledge and is paid a good wage.) All you have to do it to follow the instructions and never think for yourself and you will be fine. If one wishes to be a trail blazing aeronautical intellectual then the place for that is in the wind tunnel at Boeing.

Pilots like to think of themselves as though their efforts carry more value than they actually do. Everyday pilots go to work with little or no formal education in aviation at all and do just fine. Some of the most successful pilots I have ever known make an effort to learn as little as possible and still get by without question. I was told by an instructor at the simulator that pilots at UAL refused to study for simulator training since they were not given any pay compensation for it.

In fact over training and education does no good at all. Horizon Air will teach new hires everything they need to know and anything else just muddies up the mental waters and makes it more difficult for the student. Education and experience in a significant field out side of aviation broadens an applicants personality, ability and skill base.

Lastly as we all know aviation is a difficult field. It is hugely beneficial to develop an outside interest since at some point you will find yourself out of a job and will need to seek a real income. An aviation degree is nothing more than four years of play masquerading as school work. It has little value to the airlines and none in the outside world. You might as well take up a PE or leisure services degree.

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Old 01-27-2007, 10:54 PM   #28  
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A lot of degrees have the word "aviation" in them. If you must get one of them, have it be business-oriented. DO NOT get a degree in flying airplanes. ERAU calls that one aeronautical science. I think UND's is called "commercial aviation."
First of all, I am a senior in high school, and I am planning on going to UND starting in the fall of 2007. I plan on majoring in "Commercial Aviation." The reason I want to do this is because I love nearly all aspects of aviation, and I want to focus on it throughout college. I chose UND because there are lots of students there who aren't in any aviation program, so I wouldn't always be around aviation "geeks," like myself... That could be really lame.

I just have a few concerns about majoring in Commercial Aviation. 1) Would this major have any negative effects on finding a good airline job in the future? 2) If you are a UND grad, is the program worth the money? And is it fun?

Thanks for any input you might have on this! I appreciate it so much!

-Jake
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Old 01-28-2007, 07:57 AM   #29  
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Jake, there is a pretty active and honest UND forum at Jetcareers. You should check it out.
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Old 01-28-2007, 08:26 AM   #30  
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Jake,
If you are entirely interested in flying then yes that degree is for you. Yes it was a very fun program with some great people doing the teaching there. As far as being around the geeks, very few if any of my friends have anything to do with aviation. There are definetly the propheads walking around here, but they share little interest in anything that most people like to do. Another selling point is our safety record. No fatalities in many years (I think the last one was back in the 80's) and when incidents do occur, the program is top notch in identifying the factors involved, and instituting immediate changes to our operating procedures,
hope this helps.
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