The Norwegian Cockroach

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01-16-2021, 06:29 PM

#51

TimetoClimb

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Long-haul ultra low cost just doesn't work, except in rare instances, so why are U.S. legacies able to make long haul work and pay lucrative salaries? That's what American pilots want to see more of. The rates at NAI, NAS, NUK, WTF or whatever convoluted organization it was, were abysmal especially considering the equiptment and mission....that is irrefutable, so the failure of the model, in spite of the wage suppression, is something all pilots should celebrate. I strongly doubt ALPA was lying about it being a clear case of labor arbitrage/flag of convenience. In the U.S. we also have carriers taking advantage of desperate pilots as well, cue Atlas air and much of the regional industry. Nothing is perfect anywhere but doesn't mean a justice boner isn't in order here. Nothing personal euro dudes.

01-17-2021, 08:43 AM

#52

NEDude

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Quote:

Originally Posted by TimetoClimb

Then why not the anger towards BA, Virgin Atlantic, Aer Lingus, SAS, Tui, Brussel Airlines, Edelweiss, Level, and other airlines who fly (or have recently flown) transatlantic routes to the States who have multiple AOCs, multiple layers of working conditions and contracts, contract employees, and most of all similar or even lower pay than Norwegian had? Why was Norwegian singled out? Was it because of the ALPA cartoon and their membership who find two or three paragraphs of reading to be "too complex"?

01-17-2021, 08:53 AM

#53

NEDude

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Arturito

Are all the pilots employed by the company or they're independant "self-employed" contractor like Ryan air ?

787 pilots based in CPH, CDG, FCO, and BCN were employed by the company. 787 pilots based in FLL and with more than three years of seniority in LGW were employed by a partially owned subsidiary. Pilots based in BKK and with less than 3 years in LGW were employed through an agency (Rishworth/GlobalCrew UK). All pilots, regardless of base or contract, were on the seniority list and base bidding and upgrades were handled through that seniority list. So a BKK pilot employed through an agency could (and often did) bid for a CDG base and would then be directly employed by the company. In theory it could have happened the other way too, but BKK began downsizing almost immediately after it opened, so pilots who bid for the BKK base were not awarded it.

01-17-2021, 12:24 PM

#54

Andy

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Good riddance. The company underpriced their seats to the point where they would never be profitable. And as a result, many consumers incorrectly believed that Norwegian was pricing its fares correctly. They had their prices so low that they needed to recapitalize at least once a year. It has been an airline run by morons, losing money hand over fist.

It;s bad actor airlines like this that destabilize the business.

01-17-2021, 12:56 PM

#55

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

I think they were trying to buy themselves market share, as long as someone else was willing to prop them up while they did it. They hoped they would be able to keep what they got when the party stopped, and adjust fares to a profit.

Then covid... not only did the party stop, but the house burned down,and the police showed up and shot everybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

It;s bad actor airlines like this that destabilize the business.

Yes.

01-17-2021, 01:55 PM

#56

ObadiahDogberry

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Quote:

Originally Posted by Andy

No question the leadership, especially Bjorn Kjoss, were morons.

01-17-2021, 02:02 PM

#57

ObadiahDogberry

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

I have to wonder what would have happened if Covid were not a factor. Kjoss and company were ousted about a year prior to the Covid outbreak, and the company was in the midst of a massive restructuring.

01-18-2021, 01:50 AM

#58

Andy

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

There's a short period of time where it's acceptable to sell tickets below cost. Norwegian was selling TATL tickets below cost for as long as they flew TATL. That 'buying market share' strategy should have ended a few months into their debacle. And this problem was never addressed by any Norwegian management; they continued to try to sell their product below cost until the very end.

Frankly, I was shocked at the number of times they were able to recapitalize. I was shocked that there were so many fools willing to throw money at this hopeless business model. TATL simply cannot be done in an LCC structure.

01-21-2021, 07:23 AM

#59

poopplop

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Quote:

Originally Posted by rickair7777

I'm happy with that, as long as they keep their ultra-low budget outsourcing shell game scheme within their own borders.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captjns

I don’t see anyone on this thread beating their chests about the pay disparities between mainline pilots and their regional counterparts flying the same routes (aka outsourcing)... Why is that??? Justifiable double standard do I detect?

Start the fight for parody in pay in benefits on your home turf before trying to fix problems beyond your turf.

Thank you. There shouldn't be any legacy or regional pilots ragging on anyone else about outsourcing and "bringing down the profession". The hypocrisy is disgusting.

01-21-2021, 11:21 AM

#60

rickair7777

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Quote:

Originally Posted by poopplop

Thank you. There shouldn't be any legacy or regional pilots ragging on anyone else about outsourcing and "bringing down the profession". The hypocrisy is disgusting.

Regionals don't fly widebodies.