RobBobert

I hope this works out for those guys... If it comes to another furlough though, I wonder if this sort of incentive package may be problematic. Dropping to a 7&7 from a 76 day would be quite the hit to some.

Guard

I'm starting to realize as a new hire that efficiency is not the goal, its all about being able to get an airplane to an owner, made me sit two hours of reserve at home that then gave me 4 days off! I am sure I will be looking at 14 hour days but after doing Germany Afgan turns over 24 hours in the AF, and having a ticket home at the end of the tour I'm good with it!

OhSnapAF

Depends on what department you are referring to. The mission of NJA is to have a plain available to an owner. The goal of scheduling is to keep you on the hook for the longest amount of time, while paying you the least amount. That will never change.

GeeWizDriver

This is fundamentally true. One of the primary problems with the corporate culture of NetJets scheduling is that they have been conditioned to believe the number of hours of DUTY by each pilot is the goal to fulfill. The goal SHOULD BE to maximize the number of hours FLYING for the FEWEST hours of duty.

Unless and until that mindset shift is made, QOL at NJ will continue to suck. Some fleets more than others.

FNGFO

The unvarnished truth here. Mid managers in the frac world fell in love with crew utilization as the indicator of efficiency, built bonus programs and computer systems to further that idea and then patted themselves on the back for creating maximum duty per rotation instead of maximum efficiency.

I can’t tell you how many times I wasn’t allowed to airline home before 5pm on day last with no plane or partner because they owned me until midnight, and max duty makes free.

OhSnapAF

And the metrics can actually favor multiple fronts. In recurrent, they will tell pilot groups that the average duty day is 8 hours, because they include fatigue calls in the duty average. Remove fatigue calls so you can see what a working pilots average duty day is, and it is above 10 hours. If scheduling can lock you in for 12 hours, they win, if they utilize you less than that, then you are technically inefficient, and it doesn't matter how much you flew or not.

germanaviator

This all sounds pretty familiar from the other side of the pond.

I wonder if we shouldn't get paid by duty time. That would give scheduling the incentive to make productive plans that don't burn duty time unnecessarily.

But since block hours are the current measure for extra pay at NJA (and proposed at NJE) can you guys tell me how many hours per year are normal for a NJA pilot. Anti Peter gave me a 350-400 number for the Phenom (thanks by the way). Does that sound about right to most guys, including other fleets?

Thanks

OhSnapAF

Salary pay structures always suck in aviation because it doesn't matter how much or little you work, you get paid the same. So pilots want to work less because they don't get paid by the flight or by the hour, and management doesn't care because they can keep you on the hook forever and it doesn't cost them anything. Now with this IBI you get paid more for the daily routine as long as there is flying involved. Once they get a real handle on how fatigue calls are actually reducing and reorganizing the flying throughout the available pilot group, expect that pay to drop. Fatigue calls are down 70% which means all those pilots are chomping at the bit for a bit more cash, but the flying didn't increase 70% to meet the demand and to have the flying done now, stay the same. Thats why you will see more and more hotel standby and less flying hours on a given tour.

After the hunk of crap that NJASAP put a bow on and sold to the group in 2015, I was really hoping the group would not let that happen again, and would really force management to sit down and get some legit work rule changes. I think lots of us that left were waiting for 2020 because we feel the group deserves it, but boy did this IBI vote take the wind out of the NJA alum. I guess the pilot group got exactly what they asked for, with an astounding yes vote margin, its clear that the vast majority do not want work rule changes, they want the quick fix.

I flew about 400 a year in the Phenom so that sounds right.

OhSnapAF

Aren't you a furlough recall and a 12 year FO? It never crossed your mind that maybe the fat captains unnecessarily taking CA salaries just to sit right seat didn't contribute to you being on the street? If they downgraded like they should have, they would have had more money to pay FO salaries, thus reducing furloughs. The amount of pilots, and the length of time both would have been reduced.

I find it absolutely insane that you are defending the company during the furlough because they managed to get by being extremely fat on captains.

mooneymite

Pretty simple solution. Do what the airline unions did long ago: negotiate duty rigs. 2 hours duty time=one hour of flight time (for example) whether you were in a plane, or not. 3 3/4 hours away from home=1 hour of flight time (for example) whether you fly, or not.