121 Reserve vs Fractionals 'Reserve'
11-23-2019, 08:58 AM
#31
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Retractable
Total control.
11-23-2019, 09:19 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2017
Position: Pilot
Posts: 516
What are you folks debating now? I can’t even tell.
Isn’t there something more important to do in life? There is crew food to to deviate, WiFi antenna paint to write up and a whole lot of pressing issues to deal with for goodness sakes. Heck, suck up to management and become a SDP...
Isn’t there something more important to do in life? There is crew food to to deviate, WiFi antenna paint to write up and a whole lot of pressing issues to deal with for goodness sakes. Heck, suck up to management and become a SDP...
11-23-2019, 09:34 AM
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Twofiddyatten
You literally have basically zero control. Your only two options are to call and ask for a stop, or fatigue. More often than not, they schedule you anyway and just tell you to fatigue if you don't like it.
Which adds balance to the scheduling dynamic that would exist if there was little recourse (prior to 91K would be that dynamic. Well prior to tour short time here).
You speak about things at NetJets regarding scheduling as if you still work here.
Do don’t work here. You’ve been gone from here flying the Bus for 2 years at Alaska now having had already been through one merger from Virgin America. That’s going on 3 years ago after only having had been here for a short 2 years, deciding you could do better for yourself.
I don’t think you’ve proven you’ve done better for yourself but I’m glad you’re “happy”.
You are happy, aren’t you? Honest question.
11-23-2019, 09:41 AM
#34
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Retractable
But when you’re of the mindset that you don’t care where you go...
It’s not really an issue at all. To be continually rescheduled is no different than many days at SWA when the PM shift goes off the skids and everyone gets reassigned.
I’m typing this from a Starbucks while we sit TNTV currently. We really just don’t care where it’s to.
If you continue to compare the way scheduling works to that of an airline, I’ll just continue to remind you that it’s not an airline. There are 300-525 revenue flights a day that are divided out according to location, fleet, duty remaining etc.
Your argument that scheduling isn’t the same as an airline is as relevant as looking at a penguin and reminding it that it can’t fly.
But boy can it swim.
It’s not really an issue at all. To be continually rescheduled is no different than many days at SWA when the PM shift goes off the skids and everyone gets reassigned.
I’m typing this from a Starbucks while we sit TNTV currently. We really just don’t care where it’s to.
If you continue to compare the way scheduling works to that of an airline, I’ll just continue to remind you that it’s not an airline. There are 300-525 revenue flights a day that are divided out according to location, fleet, duty remaining etc.
Your argument that scheduling isn’t the same as an airline is as relevant as looking at a penguin and reminding it that it can’t fly.
But boy can it swim.
Did you get permission to leave the airport? TNTV means you are at the airport ready to go man.
I don’t care where I go either, what I care about is if I get to fly, have descent amount of rest/QOL, and get to work days I want to. The only thing netjets doesn’t provide me is the ability to make sure I get to fly, how much I want to fly. I just get what ever comes down the pipe, and if they yank 10 hours of flight time from me after hitting 12.1, I am not pay protected like a line holder at an airline. It is much more like reserve pay/schedule because of this. I get my base pay, but it’s at the companies whim if I make over my “min” pay just like an airline reserve guy.
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11-23-2019, 09:44 AM
#35
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Twofiddyatten
My only fatigue was met with zero issues what so ever and I was pay protected.
The workload difference between NJA and my airline is night and day different. I don't get fatigued on the road like I did at NJA. My layovers are longer, my work days are shorter, the work I do is much less, if there is a pairing that starts too early I step trade out of it, and I haven't even seen a red eye on my schedule in 2 years, which was when I bid for it on purpose to get Christmas off.
I routinely fatigued once a tour at NJA because I was legitimately exhausted from the clock flips, long duty days, short overnights, poor quality rest due to bad hotels depending on where you ended up, hard working conditions etc.
Pilots have been fired for excessive fatigues at NJA, and many have been called in and given the talk, so it isn't really truly non Jeopardy.
Honestly, why would I call my airline and ask to stop and go to the hotel when I fly 1 or 2 legs, with 19 hours off when I land? NJA needs that in place for the 4-5 legs a day, each day onslaught that is NJA scheduling. Combine that workload with min rest overnights and absolutely you need to be able to call and put a stop to it.
The workload difference between NJA and my airline is night and day different. I don't get fatigued on the road like I did at NJA. My layovers are longer, my work days are shorter, the work I do is much less, if there is a pairing that starts too early I step trade out of it, and I haven't even seen a red eye on my schedule in 2 years, which was when I bid for it on purpose to get Christmas off.
I routinely fatigued once a tour at NJA because I was legitimately exhausted from the clock flips, long duty days, short overnights, poor quality rest due to bad hotels depending on where you ended up, hard working conditions etc.
Pilots have been fired for excessive fatigues at NJA, and many have been called in and given the talk, so it isn't really truly non Jeopardy.
Honestly, why would I call my airline and ask to stop and go to the hotel when I fly 1 or 2 legs, with 19 hours off when I land? NJA needs that in place for the 4-5 legs a day, each day onslaught that is NJA scheduling. Combine that workload with min rest overnights and absolutely you need to be able to call and put a stop to it.
Fatigue 1 time a trip at Alaska and see what happens.
I think you fatigued for a variety of reasons, chiefly that our type of flying wasn’t your cup of tea.
Your personality and Type A need for control were diametrically opposed to NetJets operational reality.
It’s good for us all you decided to apply elsewhere. The scheduling irregularity that your fatigues caused other crews that week weren’t worth you being miserable here.
I’m sure the crews that did their flying PLUS yours are happier now too.
I certainly am.
Post IBI is extremely manageable and the NetJets you remember just isn’t there anymore.
You’re trying to describe and fight a phantom memory.
11-23-2019, 09:50 AM
#36
Banned
Joined APC: Sep 2018
Posts: 378
Originally Posted by Egliderjet
Did you get permission to leave the airport? TNTV means you are at the airport ready to go man.
I don’t care where I go either, what I care about is if I get to fly, have descent amount of rest/QOL, and get to work days I want to. The only thing netjets doesn’t provide me is the ability to make sure I get to fly, how much I want to fly. I just get what ever comes down the pipe, and if they yank 10 hours of flight time from me after hitting 12.1, I am not pay protected like a line holder at an airline. It is much more like reserve pay/schedule because of this. I get my base pay, but it’s at the companies whim if I make over my “min” pay just like an airline reserve guy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don’t care where I go either, what I care about is if I get to fly, have descent amount of rest/QOL, and get to work days I want to. The only thing netjets doesn’t provide me is the ability to make sure I get to fly, how much I want to fly. I just get what ever comes down the pipe, and if they yank 10 hours of flight time from me after hitting 12.1, I am not pay protected like a line holder at an airline. It is much more like reserve pay/schedule because of this. I get my base pay, but it’s at the companies whim if I make over my “min” pay just like an airline reserve guy.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
“ABLE TO TAKEOFF WITHIN :45”.
The job is as hard as you make it.
The airport Starbucks a mile down the road with a crew car certainly qualifies I think.
11-23-2019, 09:59 AM
#37
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Retractable
Fatigue 1 time a trip at Alaska and see what happens.
I think you fatigued for a variety of reasons, chiefly that our type of flying wasn’t your cup of tea.
Your personality and Type A need for control were diametrically opposed to NetJets operational reality.
It’s good for us all you decided to apply elsewhere. The scheduling irregularity that your fatigues caused other crews that week weren’t worth you being miserable here.
I’m sure the crews that did their flying PLUS yours are happier now too.
I certainly am.
Post IBI is extremely manageable and the NetJets you remember just isn’t there anymore.
You’re trying to describe and fight a phantom memory.
I think you fatigued for a variety of reasons, chiefly that our type of flying wasn’t your cup of tea.
Your personality and Type A need for control were diametrically opposed to NetJets operational reality.
It’s good for us all you decided to apply elsewhere. The scheduling irregularity that your fatigues caused other crews that week weren’t worth you being miserable here.
I’m sure the crews that did their flying PLUS yours are happier now too.
I certainly am.
Post IBI is extremely manageable and the NetJets you remember just isn’t there anymore.
You’re trying to describe and fight a phantom memory.
He just said he fatigued. And all of my airline buddies have fatigued/can fatigue all they want. My friend at Frontier that had a “almost red eye route” that wasn’t by one min, and a short turn was told by the union to make sure he fatigues so the company would change the route schedule to make it less of a QOL issue. The airlines try and build the flight routes in ways to PREVENT work related fatigue. Netjets is way behind in that aspect.
You now get the Netjets call after a few close together, no matter what. Our schedules are much more stable and fatigued status is much more manageable making it less common place, but the company has a right to call and ask any pilot here if they want too. They are even firing new hires that fatigue to much.
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11-23-2019, 10:04 AM
#38
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Retractable
Fatigue 1 time a trip at Alaska and see what happens.
I think you fatigued for a variety of reasons, chiefly that our type of flying wasn’t your cup of tea.
Your personality and Type A need for control were diametrically opposed to NetJets operational reality.
It’s good for us all you decided to apply elsewhere. The scheduling irregularity that your fatigues caused other crews that week weren’t worth you being miserable here.
I’m sure the crews that did their flying PLUS yours are happier now too.
I certainly am.
Post IBI is extremely manageable and the NetJets you remember just isn’t there anymore.
You’re trying to describe and fight a phantom memory.
I think you fatigued for a variety of reasons, chiefly that our type of flying wasn’t your cup of tea.
Your personality and Type A need for control were diametrically opposed to NetJets operational reality.
It’s good for us all you decided to apply elsewhere. The scheduling irregularity that your fatigues caused other crews that week weren’t worth you being miserable here.
I’m sure the crews that did their flying PLUS yours are happier now too.
I certainly am.
Post IBI is extremely manageable and the NetJets you remember just isn’t there anymore.
You’re trying to describe and fight a phantom memory.
He just said he fatigued. And all of my airline buddies have fatigued/can fatigue all they want. My friend at Frontier that had a “almost red eye route” that wasn’t by one min, and a short turn was told by the union to make sure he fatigues so the company would change the route schedule to make it less of a QOL issue. The airlines try and build the flight routes in ways to PREVENT work related fatigue. Netjets is way behind in that aspect.
You now get the Netjets call after a few close together, no matter what. Our schedules are much more stable and fatigued status is much more manageable making it less common place, but the company has a right to call and ask any pilot here if they want too. They are even firing new hires that fatigue to much.
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11-23-2019, 10:08 AM
#39
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2018
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Retractable
TNTV duty as described on page 89 of the FOM requires departure within 45 minutes of being briefed. All other requirements met.
“ABLE TO TAKEOFF WITHIN :45”.
The job is as hard as you make it.
The airport Starbucks a mile down the road with a crew car certainly qualifies I think.
“ABLE TO TAKEOFF WITHIN :45”.
The job is as hard as you make it.
The airport Starbucks a mile down the road with a crew car certainly qualifies I think.
I bet not. “Be where you are supposed to be when your supposed to be there”
Your on duty, they expect you to be at the plane/airport. Anything other you Technically need to get permission.
Call your CP and ask, or the union and talk to the guys that have had to defend guys that didn’t do what they are supposed to do.
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11-23-2019, 10:11 AM
#40
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2019
Posts: 53
Originally Posted by Retractable
Total control.
Which adds balance to the scheduling dynamic that would exist if there was little recourse (prior to 91K would be that dynamic. Well prior to tour short time here).
You speak about things at NetJets regarding scheduling as if you still work here.
Do don’t work here. You’ve been gone from here flying the Bus for 2 years at Alaska now having had already been through one merger from Virgin America. That’s going on 3 years ago after only having had been here for a short 2 years, deciding you could do better for yourself.
I don’t think you’ve proven you’ve done better for yourself but I’m glad you’re “happy”.
You are happy, aren’t you? Honest question.
Which adds balance to the scheduling dynamic that would exist if there was little recourse (prior to 91K would be that dynamic. Well prior to tour short time here).
You speak about things at NetJets regarding scheduling as if you still work here.
Do don’t work here. You’ve been gone from here flying the Bus for 2 years at Alaska now having had already been through one merger from Virgin America. That’s going on 3 years ago after only having had been here for a short 2 years, deciding you could do better for yourself.
I don’t think you’ve proven you’ve done better for yourself but I’m glad you’re “happy”.
You are happy, aren’t you? Honest question.
I worked there, you haven't worked at ANY 121 carrier in going on two decades. My basis to compare NJA and 121 holds way more weight than you do.
Luckily, I don't have to prove to you that I have done better for myself as you call it. I am way ahead of the game than if I would have stayed at NJA. I have over 500 pilots below me, I have more days off, make more money, get retirement put into my 401k without me spending a penny, have a much better QOL and I will upgrade if I had stayed at NJA. I am happy and absolutely feel I have done better for myself. What does this have to do with reserve? Can't debate with facts?
"When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser" - Socrates
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