Planesense
05-18-2018, 05:15 AM
#1772
On Reserve
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 22
Originally Posted by citationxtango
Description:
Lyon Aviation has an immediate opportunity for a Hawker 800 First Officer/SIC.
Requirements:
- FAA Commercial AMEL w/IR or ATP;
- FAA First Class Medical;
- FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit;
- 750 TT;
- 100 ME;
- 75 hours logged IFR;
- HS125 Type Rating (Preferred);
- Part 135 Experience (Preferred).
750TT? Lyon's website says 1000TT plus 300 multi turbines are minimums and to not apply until mins are met? Can you tell me if that has changed based on your post? I'm close to those minimums now and am very familiar with Lyon's operation as my current company used to operate their Hawkers.
Lyon Aviation has an immediate opportunity for a Hawker 800 First Officer/SIC.
Requirements:
- FAA Commercial AMEL w/IR or ATP;
- FAA First Class Medical;
- FCC Restricted Radiotelephone Operator Permit;
- 750 TT;
- 100 ME;
- 75 hours logged IFR;
- HS125 Type Rating (Preferred);
- Part 135 Experience (Preferred).
750TT? Lyon's website says 1000TT plus 300 multi turbines are minimums and to not apply until mins are met? Can you tell me if that has changed based on your post? I'm close to those minimums now and am very familiar with Lyon's operation as my current company used to operate their Hawkers.
05-18-2018, 05:18 AM
#1773
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2013
Position: FO
Posts: 627
Originally Posted by HwkrPlt
I have no connection to Lyon whatsoever, so no skin in the game aside from trying to help people advance their careers. And $50k/$75k is a lot better than what George A pays, plus you get multi turbine time.
The devil is in the details. 75k is only a number. I personally hated my experience working for a company as small as Lyon (note: I did not work for Lyon, just a charter operator of the same size) When I went to PS, I was glad to be working for a larger company for various reasons. That being said...you could just as easily make 86k first year at a regional with that 1700 hrs. When I left PS, I was on track to be over 100K for the year.
But whatever. Maybe it actually is awesome.
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05-18-2018, 07:03 AM
#1774
Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Large cabin Bizjet
Posts: 448
Once you have 1500 hours you should be at the airlines, but making $50k in the right seat of a jet when you have 750 hours is waaaay better than I had it, and way better experience than flying a Pilatus. I worked for a sister company of Lyon a while back, and while it wasn't the best job ever it was better than Planesense and way better for the logbook.
05-18-2018, 11:08 AM
#1775
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2017
Posts: 176
Just be aware what you are signing up for....
Worked for PS for about 7 years...
They have never been about good pay, or good time to add to your logbook...
It WAS always quality of life...
But as the company grew and moved, even that became more marginal... higher utilization rates, longer days, and fewer "good" layovers made it more of just a job..the BS levels, once minimal, grew, and many folks frankly could not wait till move on.
For some people it's the right job, but it us certainly not the fast track experience wise to move up career wise, and IMO it's more like a holding pattern, and when the quality of life was great, there was nothing wrong with that....some of the flying was certainly "fun", with the occasional grass strip, and many very small (for a turboprop) marginal airports that we often operated from, struggling to keep adequate levels of customer service, having to do self service lavatory servicing (it cannot sit overnight, especially in the summer, and if there isn't an FBO), buying coffee a at DD, and poring into pots when needed and getting ice at a grocery store/gas station some AM's, you need to both be flexible, think on your feet and not be afraid to get your hands dirty.
Maybe things have changed, but the few times I have bumped into crews, it seems like it hasn't.
Hopefully the internal politics have gotten better, cause it was way too easy to get caught in the crossfire, and be considered collateral damage, and for management to find a reason to walk you to the door.
Sure, I understand that MOST of the management has changed, and I would assume most of the training department (those who can't do teach was once the motto, or so it seemed)...
Land off center on a grass strip in a pc-12 and put a plane into cornfields, you get a promotion...think the same happened after landing long and hitting a blast fence with a tailwind Bridgeport with a contaminated runway....go figure.
Sure the lawyers will ask this post be removed...
Did I mention they bought a law firm and brought it in-house, and that was when things changed?!
They have never been about good pay, or good time to add to your logbook...
It WAS always quality of life...
But as the company grew and moved, even that became more marginal... higher utilization rates, longer days, and fewer "good" layovers made it more of just a job..the BS levels, once minimal, grew, and many folks frankly could not wait till move on.
For some people it's the right job, but it us certainly not the fast track experience wise to move up career wise, and IMO it's more like a holding pattern, and when the quality of life was great, there was nothing wrong with that....some of the flying was certainly "fun", with the occasional grass strip, and many very small (for a turboprop) marginal airports that we often operated from, struggling to keep adequate levels of customer service, having to do self service lavatory servicing (it cannot sit overnight, especially in the summer, and if there isn't an FBO), buying coffee a at DD, and poring into pots when needed and getting ice at a grocery store/gas station some AM's, you need to both be flexible, think on your feet and not be afraid to get your hands dirty.
Maybe things have changed, but the few times I have bumped into crews, it seems like it hasn't.
Hopefully the internal politics have gotten better, cause it was way too easy to get caught in the crossfire, and be considered collateral damage, and for management to find a reason to walk you to the door.
Sure, I understand that MOST of the management has changed, and I would assume most of the training department (those who can't do teach was once the motto, or so it seemed)...
Land off center on a grass strip in a pc-12 and put a plane into cornfields, you get a promotion...think the same happened after landing long and hitting a blast fence with a tailwind Bridgeport with a contaminated runway....go figure.
Sure the lawyers will ask this post be removed...
Did I mention they bought a law firm and brought it in-house, and that was when things changed?!
05-18-2018, 11:27 AM
#1776
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by HwkrPlt
Once you have 1500 hours you should be at the airlines, but making $50k in the right seat of a jet when you have 750 hours is waaaay better than I had it, and way better experience than flying a Pilatus. I worked for a sister company of Lyon a while back, and while it wasn't the best job ever it was better than Planesense and way better for the logbook.
At an average charter jet company, you'll never get same experience as you do at the PC12 operators. Flying 7 leg days shooting 3-4 approaches to 1800RVR, flying VFR to one of the most challenging airports in the world, getting trained in a level D sim, things like these are almost unheard of in the 135 jet charter world (although they do exist).
All while getting paid more than 50k.
Sorry, not buying.
05-18-2018, 11:33 AM
#1777
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by ZippyNH
think the same happened after landing long and hitting a blast fence with a tailwind Bridgeport with a contaminated runway....go figure.
Sure the lawyers will ask this post be removed...
Did I mention they bought a law firm and brought it in-house, and that was when things changed?!
Sure the lawyers will ask this post be removed...
Did I mention they bought a law firm and brought it in-house, and that was when things changed?!
05-18-2018, 12:52 PM
#1778
Pilot
Joined APC: Dec 2014
Position: Large cabin Bizjet
Posts: 448
Originally Posted by dera
Better for the logbook? Nah. This could be debated ad infinitum, but I'd say the common consensus is that turbine PIC is much more valuable than SIC time anywhere.
At an average charter jet company, you'll never get same experience as you do at the PC12 operators. Flying 7 leg days shooting 3-4 approaches to 1800RVR, flying VFR to one of the most challenging airports in the world, getting trained in a level D sim, things like these are almost unheard of in the 135 jet charter world (although they do exist).
All while getting paid more than 50k.
Sorry, not buying.
At an average charter jet company, you'll never get same experience as you do at the PC12 operators. Flying 7 leg days shooting 3-4 approaches to 1800RVR, flying VFR to one of the most challenging airports in the world, getting trained in a level D sim, things like these are almost unheard of in the 135 jet charter world (although they do exist).
All while getting paid more than 50k.
Sorry, not buying.
The rest of your post is 100% incorrect. Once you get away from the blue coolaide, you'll understand.
05-18-2018, 01:05 PM
#1779
Line Holder
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Posts: 47
Originally Posted by dera
Better for the logbook? Nah. This could be debated ad infinitum, but I'd say the common consensus is that turbine PIC is much more valuable than SIC time anywhere.
At an average charter jet company, you'll never get same experience as you do at the PC12 operators. Flying 7 leg days shooting 3-4 approaches to 1800RVR, flying VFR to one of the most challenging airports in the world, getting trained in a level D sim, things like these are almost unheard of in the 135 jet charter world (although they do exist).
All while getting paid more than 50k.
Sorry, not buying.
At an average charter jet company, you'll never get same experience as you do at the PC12 operators. Flying 7 leg days shooting 3-4 approaches to 1800RVR, flying VFR to one of the most challenging airports in the world, getting trained in a level D sim, things like these are almost unheard of in the 135 jet charter world (although they do exist).
All while getting paid more than 50k.
Sorry, not buying.
05-18-2018, 01:13 PM
#1780
In a land of unicorns
Joined APC: Apr 2014
Position: Whale FO
Posts: 6,469
Originally Posted by HwkrPlt
So someone with 750 hours at Planesense makes more than $50k? That is awesome to hear that things have changed!
The rest of your post is 100% incorrect. Once you get away from the blue coolaide, you'll understand.
The rest of your post is 100% incorrect. Once you get away from the blue coolaide, you'll understand.
At my PC12 operator, we do what I described above. I think in the northeast, PS is similar (sans the challenging airport).
I got hired at 830 hours and have been making a 50k+ in pay since I started. I think PS pays about the same (although our PIC day rate just increased to $800).
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