Originally Posted by monkeybrains

Sorry, but it doesn’t work that way. We are at an impasse right now. The board is not going to proffer this case, but if you are hoping to get released, pulling TAs off the table will not help your cause.
Typically(granted this is not a typical situation) the board will proffer a case when the parties are down to a few outstanding economic items. They will not proffer a case that has hundreds of open items.
Using your logic, every negotiation would start with the pilots walking in asking for a trillion dollars an hour, saying we are light years apart, declare an impasse, and get released. That is not the way it goes. I wish it was, but it is not.
I don’t think a strike is our only chance, nor do I think we will be going on strike anytime soon, but if you have been paying attention, the company is in dire straights trying to hire pilots. They have NO prospects. We have airplanes arriving pretty steadily for the near future and they are to the point where they are unable to fill classes. True there are some people coming to class, but it is a smaller and smaller number each class. The operation is a mess and getting worse. These are pressure points that need to be exploited. When there are airplanes parked on the ramp due to lack of crews, then the company will show up and negotiate. If you’re waiting for a proffer, I think you are going to be majorly disappointed.

Originally Posted by PulledBreaker

Nice try at condescension, but you are wrong. We absolutely still have pilots showing up to class. The "rumors" of them wanting 35 per class are just that, rumors. When they have 19-20 pilots a month, seats are getting filled and things are running normally. And the aircraft deliveries that have still yet to materialize can go away just as fast as vacations did.

Second, we aren't at an impasse because the NMB hasn't said so. It's funny how you claim that we will only get an arbitration offer when it's just a few items left. Funny in that you are just making it up. You speaking for the NMB discredits your entire statement. Saying a strike isn't our only path, when your union leaders say otherwise makes me wonder where your information is coming from.

If you want to go into negotiations with your hat in hand, go tell the NC that. I'm sure you aren't the only one here who "just wants this over with".

Originally Posted by RgrMurdock

This. Many of you guys seem clueless as the how the negotiation process plays out or what each party's role is. I'll add on that these SAFE and CBA references won't work either. When you started negotiations, status quo was locked in. If the entire pilot group suddenly starts not using their cell phones, that's a violation of the status quo. It doesn't matter if they have recordings of the union encouraging it or not. SAFE campaigns didn't work for AA and it won't work for you guys. You have to play by the rules which is very frustrating. This NMB seems to be blind to the obvious. But taking matters into your own hands will only hurt the group.

Originally Posted by monkeybrains

Of course, until the company is ready to sit down and negotiate, it is all a moot point.

Originally Posted by monkeybrains

Do you ever think before you start typing. Why would we do that? All that would do is kick the can another 2-3 years down the road. You do understand the ultimate goal is to get a deal done. The company would like nothing more than for us to pull all the TAs off the table because it would cause more delays.
You have clearly demonstrated that you will ultimately vote no for any TA that is presented to you regardless of what is in it. But, for the rational folks, our goal needs to be to get a deal done. NOT a discounted deal, NOT a substandard deal, an industry deal. What does that mean? Well I suppose the exact specifics vary from pilot to pilot, but basically it means a deal that gets us out of the basement and gets us to industry average or above. Before you start your rant remember that in 3 months our top CAs will be paid $100/hr less than industry AVERAGE. So I have no interest in pulling all TAs off the table and beating my chest. I do have an interest in getting a deal done that closes that gap. A deal that gets us better retirement. If we wind up $1 or $2 dollars below industry average, I don’t really care. I’m more interested in the first $98-$99/hour. We are giving up $100k+\ year each year we don’t get this deal done.
The company obviously has no interest in getting a deal done, but I can’t imagine why any pilot would advocate for anything that would drag this process out even longer.

Originally Posted by ReserveCA

Why pull everything?
Because the whole process is a FRIGGIN JOKE!
We ASK for SUB PAR (only so much $ available) including TA’d sections, the NMB is a dog and pony show, the company acts with impunity and ALPA says “play nice”
I would take a pay cut to leave but I just can’t afford a 50% average cut for two years...
I’m screwed and bitter...
so yes I do THINK before typing....

Originally Posted by monkeybrains

1. The whole process is not a joke. The NMB has undermined the process by not acting and lost credibility. We knew this was likely with a Trump White House, and our fears have been confirmed.
2. Our ask was not sub par. I would agree that it got a bit long in the tooth, little too ripe on the vine, but we have a new proposal that gives us some room for the next 3 months and is industry average next year.
3. As far as the NMB's lack of action and the company's behavior, I agree, and direct you back to point 1.
4. All of the desirable airlines' first year FO pay will be north of $90/ hour in 3 months. Second year FO pay will be roughly $145/ hour by 2020, so you are not looking at a 50% pay cut. When you consider the increase in DC, I would argue it is close to a wash year 1 (unless you are a wh0re, which you have said you're not) and you will be considerably ahead of the game by year 2. Everybody can afford to leave! It is just whether or not you choose to. Personally, I have no interest in sitting reserve in EWR, JFK, MIA etc, so I will stay here and fight.
We are all on the same team. We need to cut back on the rhetoric, stop the in-fighting, and focus our energy where it will be most productive.

Originally Posted by ReserveCA

Ok......Without cashing in my 401k and liquidating assets......
YOU make my house payment for the next 18 -24 months and I would gladly leave

Originally Posted by monkeybrains

2. Our ask was not sub par. I would agree that it got a bit long in the tooth, little too ripe on the vine, but we have a new proposal that gives us some room for the next 3 months and is industry average next year..

Originally Posted by Bahamasflyer

Individual pilots have every right to only give the company the bare minimum required by the contract regardless of how much extra they did before by helping out.