Frontier Negotiations Discussion
04-03-2017, 07:04 AM
#32
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: CA
Posts: 299
Originally Posted by Trowserchilli
The 4 day deal is nice.
Management at Spirit is pushing for PBS and eliminating that 4 days off.
Management at Spirit is pushing for PBS and eliminating that 4 days off.
First year FO pay $80.31 Dos
Fifth year captain $240.26 Dos
16% D.C. Among other things that are industry standard with our peers.
Sorry, I would post our proposal, but it isn't working for me. It will be a NO vote for me if the company comes in low balling us. This is my absolute bottom!
Last edited by ropestart; 04-03-2017 at 07:20 AM.
04-03-2017, 07:22 AM
#33
Banned
Joined APC: Dec 2009
Position: Narrow/Left Wide/Right
Posts: 3,655
Originally Posted by sulkair
You guys are scaring me with all this talk about PBS and under what circumstances you would entertain it.
IT'S A GIANT CONCESSION; PERIOD!
IT'S A GIANT CONCESSION; PERIOD!
Dropping vacation on your line after PBS bidding would be a total coup for the pilots!
04-03-2017, 08:04 AM
#35
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2013
Posts: 1,666
Originally Posted by Chief Brody
Does anyone know the attrition rate at F9? Seems like the Vacancy Notices are pretty weak.
Last edited by Xdashdriver; 04-03-2017 at 08:17 AM.
04-03-2017, 08:42 AM
#37
Last To Know First To Go
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by ColdWhiskey
Any proposal that includes Pref Bid will be an automatic 'NO' vote from me. I don't care who controls the 'keys' or what the pay rate is (unless it happens to exceed $300/hr which will never happen).
04-03-2017, 08:47 AM
#38
Last To Know First To Go
Joined APC: Sep 2016
Posts: 604
Originally Posted by Gary et al
Lurked here for quite a long time, but finally figured it was time to post.
PBS.
Its not all bad, not only the top 10-15% are happy, and you can turn 1 week of vacation into 20 days off. Its all in the work rules and knowing how to bid, i.e. how the computer assigns trips.
Having used PBS at my previous airline I can say that even being below 60% up the list I would still get a line may not have been perfect, overall I would get close to what I'd want. Vacation months...even being just off reserve I was able to get 21 straight days off. Having training and vacation both in the same month, which happened to be a December, I only flew 2 days! I honestly had a great experience wth PBS. What we couldn't do is make money in vacation months like can be done here.
I'm not saying PBS is great, what we have now is certainly better overall, but its not because of line bidding. Its the freedom of dropping and picking up and re-organizing your schedule. The process of bidding a pre-built line without having conflict pay protection really isn't that amazing.
If PBS was in the next contract...my guess is that I'd be a NO vote. The right language needs to be present to protect the pilots from what COULD be done under PBS, and it certainly will save the company money and that would need to be monetized for us. But the blanket statement that PBS is bad, its simply not true.
A couple quick specifics of items that would need to be present:
Make vacation days worth 4.5hrs per day for people trying to make money and 5.5hrs per day pre credit for people wanting time off, only need to fly 36.5 hrs to complete month, still get 75 pay.
Set Calendar min day pay to 5hrs
No Globalization (equalizing lines, awarding senior trips to junior pilots)
ALPA controls pairings
Minimum 3 days off after trip unless waived
Max 2 red eye trips per month unless waived, red eye trips left over will go to open time and subsequently reserve.
Company sets target line value to be flown by each pilot, pilots can set their personal threshold to target +/- 20hrs
PBS.
Its not all bad, not only the top 10-15% are happy, and you can turn 1 week of vacation into 20 days off. Its all in the work rules and knowing how to bid, i.e. how the computer assigns trips.
Having used PBS at my previous airline I can say that even being below 60% up the list I would still get a line may not have been perfect, overall I would get close to what I'd want. Vacation months...even being just off reserve I was able to get 21 straight days off. Having training and vacation both in the same month, which happened to be a December, I only flew 2 days! I honestly had a great experience wth PBS. What we couldn't do is make money in vacation months like can be done here.
I'm not saying PBS is great, what we have now is certainly better overall, but its not because of line bidding. Its the freedom of dropping and picking up and re-organizing your schedule. The process of bidding a pre-built line without having conflict pay protection really isn't that amazing.
If PBS was in the next contract...my guess is that I'd be a NO vote. The right language needs to be present to protect the pilots from what COULD be done under PBS, and it certainly will save the company money and that would need to be monetized for us. But the blanket statement that PBS is bad, its simply not true.
A couple quick specifics of items that would need to be present:
Make vacation days worth 4.5hrs per day for people trying to make money and 5.5hrs per day pre credit for people wanting time off, only need to fly 36.5 hrs to complete month, still get 75 pay.
Set Calendar min day pay to 5hrs
No Globalization (equalizing lines, awarding senior trips to junior pilots)
ALPA controls pairings
Minimum 3 days off after trip unless waived
Max 2 red eye trips per month unless waived, red eye trips left over will go to open time and subsequently reserve.
Company sets target line value to be flown by each pilot, pilots can set their personal threshold to target +/- 20hrs
Excellent insight, thanks for the info!
04-03-2017, 09:05 AM
#39
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Sep 2015
Posts: 180
Originally Posted by Missed Appch
I heard a rumor that one of our pilots got suspended for calling in fatigued. I have no idea who. Has anyone else heard this? Or is this just a rumor?
Seems like the FAA would be interested.
Seems like the FAA would be interested.
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