Frontier Negotiations Discussion
12-07-2018, 09:04 PM
#4102
Line Holder
Joined APC: Oct 2018
Posts: 30
Originally Posted by ToddChavez
From where we were to where we are, I'm a yes vote so far. Unless there's language we must cut off our left testicle, I'm not going to change my mind. I work 90+ hours a month and love the gains I will get. Fortunately, most of this pilot group credits 90+ hours already and will gain big.
Anyone who was expecting anything other than this kind of TA was delusional... And to be frank it's not bad. Oh well, the MEC could have brought us DL and fills like reserveCA would still not be happy. They let their emotions drive them.
FWIW, without this new language in section 1, we could be bought/sold/merged and we're f'ed.
Peace out, everyone.
Anyone who was expecting anything other than this kind of TA was delusional... And to be frank it's not bad. Oh well, the MEC could have brought us DL and fills like reserveCA would still not be happy. They let their emotions drive them.
FWIW, without this new language in section 1, we could be bought/sold/merged and we're f'ed.
Peace out, everyone.
12-07-2018, 10:40 PM
#4103
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Oct 2011
Position: El Capitan de Airbii
Posts: 277
Originally Posted by BlackhawkIP
I thought this slide was one of the most enlightening and I was actually surprised they included it in the brief. Clearly shows how low Frontier pilots have been paid since 2007. It also shows how with this TA, Frontier jumps right back to the bottom.
.....but look at that percentage increase, largest increase EVER!
.....but look at that percentage increase, largest increase EVER!
And the sad thing is they had to gut the junior pay scales to achieve a 12-year captain pay that barely penetrates the bottom of the industry pay.
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12-08-2018, 04:29 AM
#4104
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2009
Posts: 124
This. This is why it will pass. A direct quote from the Facebook group, that unfortunately reflects the backbone of too many pilots on property. It sounds like it came right from Barry's mouth. He could have just typed "I give up" and saved himself a lot of keystrokes.
Guys, we are not Delta, United etc. we are a ****ty ULCC, if you want the big bucks go to those carriers or go overseas, China is paying more than Delta!. A quarter of the people at F9 could never get hired at one of these carriers including myself. Sure we lost a few thing but we will all make more money then we are used to. I’m all for PBS, maybe I can get a day off that I need instead of having to use a sick day.
Guys, we are not Delta, United etc. we are a ****ty ULCC, if you want the big bucks go to those carriers or go overseas, China is paying more than Delta!. A quarter of the people at F9 could never get hired at one of these carriers including myself. Sure we lost a few thing but we will all make more money then we are used to. I’m all for PBS, maybe I can get a day off that I need instead of having to use a sick day.
12-08-2018, 06:02 AM
#4105
On Reserve
Joined APC: Sep 2014
Position: HS-125 Left
Posts: 13
Originally Posted by PulledBreaker
Us? Keep us down? Don't you work at some regional? If so, way to keep us down big guy.
I can assure you that not a single person here gives 2 sh!ts what you think of our contract. This is our fight, our decision. Go do whatever it is you do, and kindly mind your own business.
I can assure you that not a single person here gives 2 sh!ts what you think of our contract. This is our fight, our decision. Go do whatever it is you do, and kindly mind your own business.
12-08-2018, 06:13 AM
#4106
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2015
Posts: 514
Except we are a crappy airline. We go to random cities at random times and constantly open and close routes as we get our asses kicked by any of the competition. The only way we sell tickets is because we're cheapest, and most of those people can only stomach one of you many operations f ups.
To think of it, maybe that's why we close routes, we run out of suckers that will fly us.
We aren't anything like the legacies. Problem is, some of you have been believing your own bull****. Now faced with this reality check, you would rather keep the fantasy alive and continue work under our present contract.
If we vote this down, we wont see TA2 in a few weeks. It will be months before WE are even ready to negotiate again. The money we will lose in the interim is significant, and may never have a break even under a second TA.
To think of it, maybe that's why we close routes, we run out of suckers that will fly us.
We aren't anything like the legacies. Problem is, some of you have been believing your own bull****. Now faced with this reality check, you would rather keep the fantasy alive and continue work under our present contract.
If we vote this down, we wont see TA2 in a few weeks. It will be months before WE are even ready to negotiate again. The money we will lose in the interim is significant, and may never have a break even under a second TA.
12-08-2018, 06:45 AM
#4107
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2009
Posts: 410
Originally Posted by RustyChain
Except we are a crappy airline. We go to random cities at random times and constantly open and close routes as we get our asses kicked by any of the competition. The only way we sell tickets is because we're cheapest, and most of those people can only stomach one of you many operations f ups.
To think of it, maybe that's why we close routes, we run out of suckers that will fly us.
We aren't anything like the legacies. Problem is, some of you have been believing your own bull****. Now faced with this reality check, you would rather keep the fantasy alive and continue work under our present contract.
If we vote this down, we wont see TA2 in a few weeks. It will be months before WE are even ready to negotiate again. The money we will lose in the interim is significant, and may never have a break even under a second TA.
To think of it, maybe that's why we close routes, we run out of suckers that will fly us.
We aren't anything like the legacies. Problem is, some of you have been believing your own bull****. Now faced with this reality check, you would rather keep the fantasy alive and continue work under our present contract.
If we vote this down, we wont see TA2 in a few weeks. It will be months before WE are even ready to negotiate again. The money we will lose in the interim is significant, and may never have a break even under a second TA.
It’s only partially about the money. PBS is a huge concession for me. With PBS my 7 days of vacation would be expandable to 9 versus being expandable to 22 as it can be in our current contract. That is a huge QOL concession for me. The rest of the contract does not make up for this concession. Some will argue that only senior people can effectively do that. Guess what? Everyone’s seniority is going up over the duration of this contract and our time remaining at Frontier. I don’t want to give up QOL for all of my remaining years.
I would rather send this back and find out what is behind door number TA2, than always wonder if we could have done better. Even if it takes a while or we end up disappointed in TA2, we will know that we tried to do the right thing. We would have our professional pilot self respect and dignity.
12-08-2018, 06:48 AM
#4108
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Originally Posted by RustyChain
Except we are a crappy airline. We go to random cities at random times and constantly open and close routes as we get our asses kicked by any of the competition. The only way we sell tickets is because we're cheapest, and most of those people can only stomach one of you many operations f ups.
To think of it, maybe that's why we close routes, we run out of suckers that will fly us.
We aren't anything like the legacies. Problem is, some of you have been believing your own bull****. Now faced with this reality check, you would rather keep the fantasy alive and continue work under our present contract.
If we vote this down, we wont see TA2 in a few weeks. It will be months before WE are even ready to negotiate again. The money we will lose in the interim is significant, and may never have a break even under a second TA.
To think of it, maybe that's why we close routes, we run out of suckers that will fly us.
We aren't anything like the legacies. Problem is, some of you have been believing your own bull****. Now faced with this reality check, you would rather keep the fantasy alive and continue work under our present contract.
If we vote this down, we wont see TA2 in a few weeks. It will be months before WE are even ready to negotiate again. The money we will lose in the interim is significant, and may never have a break even under a second TA.
This TA is so bad that it now goes far beyond money. But now it's you who are willing to give up all QOL and line holder integrity for subterrestrial rates and a bonus check.
12-08-2018, 06:56 AM
#4109
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 541
Originally Posted by V1 McFlyerson
This TA is so bad that it now goes far beyond money. But now it's you who are willing to give up all QOL and line holder integrity for subterrestrial rates and a bonus check.
12-08-2018, 07:10 AM
#4110
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Dec 2015
Posts: 497
Originally Posted by V1 McFlyerson
This TA is so bad that it now goes far beyond money. But now it's you who are willing to give up all QOL and line holder integrity for subterrestrial rates and a bonus check.
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