Huge difference btw an “airport” 10 and and walking down the street 10. Kinda how biff see’s this airbus pilot group versus real (same) airbus pilot groups.

 

Spoiler alert. This group of our union brothers isn’t going to send anything to a vote that won’t pass by at least 80% by their estimation. Our union leadership is so stingy that they won’t even declare they have an AIP yet, only a “framework.” Most unions would have sounded the victory bell, and would have shared the currently inked AIP details with their pilots. Our guys trust this management group SO LITTLE that they’ll only say we’ve made major progress, but “it ain’t over til it’s over.” That distrust of management was the single biggest contributor to my trust in this union leadership. They’re not taking a carrot while getting knived in the back.

I keep reading people talking about this momentum. That perceived momentum is only present because our union has been negotiating and making deals with the company. If they were to cross their arms and say “no” to every new proposal, there would be no momentum. And then they’ll argue that the contract is something the company needs now because “we have them on the ropes,” supposedly because an IPO is imminent; Oh yeah I heard that one before, I think it was the last time they were filed their S1 for their IPO. The company isn’t looking for a 51% vote, they’re gauging the minimum our union will send to membership, because history shows that CBAs that pass union leadership and go to a member vote have a very high pass rate. Our guys standards have only been pushed up as they’ve been wading through the company and NMB bull crap.

The guys negotiating this contract are a staunch bunch. Pay them the respect by waiting for details this week. They’ll be plenty of time for questions. And (if we get that far), there will also be a vote!

 

It only passes by 80% is because 80% don’t have the endurance to see this through. As I stated earlier, the union has gone as far as they can without our help. At this point it is up to the pilots to pull their weight. Unfortunately, by seein how they jumped all over incentive trips, this concessionary contrat will be voted in... I’m completely ashamed of where I work and I guess where I’ll be workin until I get a call... embarrassed might be a better term. I don’t know but either way, I’ll have this feeling about me when I introduce myself to the cockpit of a different airline I’m commenting on.... dammit, I can’t brlieve this strong force would jump at the first bit of food given too us in 2.5 yrs after they’ve throw **** on us up to this point. I honestly can fathom the willful acceptance of something so substandard. It will be hard to look at another F9 pilot and wonder if they were the gutless pilot that voted this in out of just being scared for another month of negotiations.

 

There are a lot of good points here. However, its just not right to decide how you are voting already. We don't even have bullet points yet!!! Give me a break. These contracts are complex and have a lot of different elements that effect them.

I understand the argument of not accepting the first deal, I totally get that. But if the deals good enough, you should take it. That being said, I am concerned this deal isn't good enough. But I'm not voting yet.... and neither should you.

The negotiating committee busted their asses for us for two and a half years, you owe it to them to read the TA with an open mind.

 

Again, like the other rational folks here I withholding my opinion until I see something to have an opinion about.

A $15/hr difference at 80hrs/mo over 7 years = $100,800 (I picked 7 years as a conservative number for a next future contract)

I have no idea what the numbers actually are, but lets just say its $265 top, or $98 over current pay. That same $100,800 would be made in just over 12 months when comparing it to current pay.

This doesn't factor "retro"/"signing bonus" into it lets say its $40,000 more for just that additional year, it would then take 18 months to make that 140,800. So as long as the negotiating time for that extra $15 took less than 18 months then you came out ahead. Of course not factoring in interest.

The point being, there is a time value to money, and there is a dollar value to every work rule. Our NC understands this well, I do not believe that this TA will hit it out of the park. But based on my previous experiences with them, I do feel that they believe it is good enough in terms of how much more we could get relative to how much time would need to be invested. That when factoring in interest of making your money now or only receiving 30/40/50% of it in a bonus check if negotiations were to continue, we would be in a realm of diminishing returns for all the money lost.

A user in the other thread posted that it is JB - 14, that would either put it at 245 or 258 depending on if it factored in JB's red eye override. I have no idea if this number is true, and I wonder where they heard it as not much has leaked with any of this. Due to PBS also being included I will be sad and surprised if the top number is only 245. That is not industry average.

But again I haven't seen anything yet, so I'll just wait to press judgement until I do. Voting no just because you could get more is not rational until we see what we will be offered.

 

Gary et al, I went back and re-read the other thread. I assumed the numbers posted by another user were the numbers that we were going to be voting on. When in fact, they were just our earlier ask. I apologize for my lack of reading comprehension. I have no idea where the Spirit +2% came from.

Completely my bad. I agree 100% on reading the actual contract before a decision can be made.

 

Yes!! Exactly this!

 

I’ve only made two post here. I predicted PBS and that we would have a proposal. Now listen up. From what I’m hearing the proposal is dencent, not great but better than our competitors. PBS was always going to happen, it is way more efficient for the company and not just for our lack of potential lack flexibility but for operational performance and the software involved. Remember that technology has allowed them to eliminate a lot of overhead with its implementation.

So hear me out, read the TA when we get it, I sure will. Please remember that interest rates are going up and wages are going way up nation wide for those that are professionals. (Everyone else in the USA they are not). Eg. Skilled workers are in demand.

I’m thinking that the overall reall inflation will be closer to 5% over the next 5 years. This will become more clear over the next year. Which is why there is a push now.

Please vote on your gut feeling, not on your desire for short term gains.

 

Thanks Gary for this calculation. I believe this is correct. Again if these numbers are inaccurate then we will vote no. If not, then best to vote it in. One more factor is that United’s pilot contract is coming due some. If I know unions, then pay will go up drastically. We have to consider this when voting. United may not be able to pay but this is what always causes cycles in the industry. I know that at Frontier on the other hand, we will be able to afford such a contact, and if not, a sale will be at hand.

 

One thing I will add. One thing our company wants is to divide us and not to join us. They want to divide us even with even with the new contact. It’s the Roman circus, give them football games, distract us, and turn us into cattle. So you don’t ever question the leader. Stop watching screens, be companions, we are all self aware, be united,