I’ve Already Decided
11-04-2018 | 11:26 AM
#51
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: May 2017
Posts: 453
Likes: 0
My post explaining the time value of money was just that, an explanation. It is nothing to be afraid of, but always something to consider, and to not consider it is foolish.
That said, I also explained that a shortfall equating to $15/hr whether in actual money or work rule value would almost certainly be worth fighting for because as long as the renegotiation takes less than a year it would still be worth it. Things to take note of are the length of the contract and % of lost wages of the signing bonus. The shorter the contract duration the lower value and increase would have over that time period and higher % reduces the value of returning to the table as there is less upward movement available there.
All it means is, look at the package. How close is it to what you want? Its not going to be what you want, I want 75 hr guarantee with 1 turn per month at $1,000/hr. Thats not going to happen...this isn't to say set yourself up for disappointment, just learn what our peers actually have. How do we compare? We MUST be leading in some areas, but you would then expect to fall just a touch short somewhere else. JetBlue's is decent, but its not Delta or United. I could guarantee there will be areas that we will not like. The questions will be how much are those parts worth, how much do the good parts make up for them, and how long might it take to fix what we don't like. Again based on my previous talks with our NC, I feel they did understand this time value, I don't believe they would send us something that is junk.
Read the TA in its entirety when we get it. Decide if it is worth it to you. If we can do better and get it done within a reasonable amount of time (another year or two) then by all means lets vote it down.
That said, I also explained that a shortfall equating to $15/hr whether in actual money or work rule value would almost certainly be worth fighting for because as long as the renegotiation takes less than a year it would still be worth it. Things to take note of are the length of the contract and % of lost wages of the signing bonus. The shorter the contract duration the lower value and increase would have over that time period and higher % reduces the value of returning to the table as there is less upward movement available there.
All it means is, look at the package. How close is it to what you want? Its not going to be what you want, I want 75 hr guarantee with 1 turn per month at $1,000/hr. Thats not going to happen...this isn't to say set yourself up for disappointment, just learn what our peers actually have. How do we compare? We MUST be leading in some areas, but you would then expect to fall just a touch short somewhere else. JetBlue's is decent, but its not Delta or United. I could guarantee there will be areas that we will not like. The questions will be how much are those parts worth, how much do the good parts make up for them, and how long might it take to fix what we don't like. Again based on my previous talks with our NC, I feel they did understand this time value, I don't believe they would send us something that is junk.
Read the TA in its entirety when we get it. Decide if it is worth it to you. If we can do better and get it done within a reasonable amount of time (another year or two) then by all means lets vote it down.
Thanks Gary, I do understand what you're saying, I appreciate the detail too.
11-04-2018 | 11:26 AM
#52
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2018
Posts: 241
Likes: 0
From: A320
AIP rates?
Just curious where all these regulars are seeing these tentative rates......while I imagine they are texting them to each other (DEN crowd) or via FB or other social media (I don’t play)......any info appreciated.......
11-04-2018 | 11:55 AM
#53
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Nov 2012
Posts: 3,764
Likes: 115
From: 1900D CA
No one has seen actual rates yet. We've just heard rumors that the rates will be close to our original ask. Until the union emails us bullet points, we are just guessing.
11-04-2018 | 01:42 PM
#54
Banned
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,006
Likes: 0
From: doggy style
Apparently some aren't guessing... it would seem the OP and several others know what they are and dead-determined to vote no, work another couple years under this POS contract we have now, all to get an extra $5/hr....
11-04-2018 | 04:04 PM
#56
Thread Starter
New Hire
Joined: Nov 2018
Posts: 9
Likes: 0
They must get this done. There is no way it would take “another couple years.” It would be done by 2Q 2019 at the latest.
11-04-2018 | 04:21 PM
#57
Banned
Joined: Apr 2016
Posts: 293
Likes: 0
From: A320
The rest of us would like to hear what our union has to say. I am optimistic that this is going to be a good deal. I will not vote down a good CBA just to squeeze out another couple bucks an hour. Do you watch the news? Do you know how volatile the economy is right now? Do you follow the other airline forums and read about the growth rates slowing at other airlines?
Voting down a good CBA would be an irresponsible gamble at this point in time.
Last edited by Chief Brody; 11-04-2018 at 05:01 PM.
11-04-2018 | 04:42 PM
#59
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Mar 2015
Posts: 514
Likes: 0
Do you have facts to back up this claim? Maybe you are a rich kid with a trust fund or a have a bread winning spouse paying your bills.
The rest of us would like to hear what our union has to say. I am optimistic that this is going to be a good deal. I will not vote down a good CBA just to squeeze out another couple bucks an hour. Do you watch the news? Do you know how volatile the economy is right now? Do you follow the other airline forums and read about the growth rates slowing at other airlines?
Voting down a good CBA would be an irresponsible gamble at this point in time.
The rest of us would like to hear what our union has to say. I am optimistic that this is going to be a good deal. I will not vote down a good CBA just to squeeze out another couple bucks an hour. Do you watch the news? Do you know how volatile the economy is right now? Do you follow the other airline forums and read about the growth rates slowing at other airlines?
Voting down a good CBA would be an irresponsible gamble at this point in time.
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