Positives and Negatives
12-16-2018, 01:28 PM
#181
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: May 2017
Posts: 453
But there are legions of pilots who don't communicate on social media (although they may lurk) They feel you out first in the cockpit (I know that sounded bad) before they speak, and then they mostly agree with your dissent; and it's actually easy for them because part of them isn't 100 percent sold either-way. However, when it comes time to pull the lever, they will vote yes because a bird in the hand is worth two in the bush. That makes up a silent majority. That said, seeing butthurt predict such a close vote is interesting.
12-16-2018, 02:46 PM
#182
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 42
As I have said before, I can respect every pilots decision on which way they feel they need to vote. There are valid arguments each side makes with regards to their own personal decisions. I am a 13 year Captain and have spoken to all of my First Officers and many Captain’s whom I respect.
Through my personal conversations, I have only had 2 first officers say that they were “No” votes. Of those, both were individuals who picked up as much incentivized flying as they could find. To me, that contradicts many of the reasons they gave supporting their “No” vote.
Of the Captains, many of whom I respect tremendously, I have only spoken to 3 “NO” votes. All 3 of these individuals have presented very valid reasons for their vote. They have read the TA and carefully considered how it would impact themselves and the group as a whole. They are voting “No” after considering the potential consequences and making their decision based on what they feel is right.
The majority of the others are all voting “Yes”. Of these, most have also demonstrated that they have a solid understanding of the issues at hand. However, none are overwhelmingly happy with this TA. Most have taken a hard look at the big picture and have stated that what they emotionally feel about this TA and what the reality of our position is are 2 completely opposing things. In the end, the decision to vote “Yes” is a tough pill to swallow. However, the benefits outweigh the likely consequences of voting “No”. They feel that even if TA2 makes improvements, it won’t be enough to offset the losses incurred by delaying. Additionally, they question whether the QOL issues they have with TA1 will even be addressed in TA2, considering most attention will likely be placed on larger ticket items.
For me, it boils down to this. I have read the TA, I have attended the road shows, I have watched the webinar, I have spoken to the reps. I am taking some time to let my emotions pass and digest all this information. In a couple of weeks when I am able to approach this in a more rational frame of mind, I will re-evaluate everything I have learned and make the best business decision that I can. I encourage everyone to try and do the same. When this is over, and time has passed, we will know if we made the correct collaborative decision. Let’s hope we can all clear our minds and make the right choice. Until then, I respect all of your decisions. I will see you on the line.
Through my personal conversations, I have only had 2 first officers say that they were “No” votes. Of those, both were individuals who picked up as much incentivized flying as they could find. To me, that contradicts many of the reasons they gave supporting their “No” vote.
Of the Captains, many of whom I respect tremendously, I have only spoken to 3 “NO” votes. All 3 of these individuals have presented very valid reasons for their vote. They have read the TA and carefully considered how it would impact themselves and the group as a whole. They are voting “No” after considering the potential consequences and making their decision based on what they feel is right.
The majority of the others are all voting “Yes”. Of these, most have also demonstrated that they have a solid understanding of the issues at hand. However, none are overwhelmingly happy with this TA. Most have taken a hard look at the big picture and have stated that what they emotionally feel about this TA and what the reality of our position is are 2 completely opposing things. In the end, the decision to vote “Yes” is a tough pill to swallow. However, the benefits outweigh the likely consequences of voting “No”. They feel that even if TA2 makes improvements, it won’t be enough to offset the losses incurred by delaying. Additionally, they question whether the QOL issues they have with TA1 will even be addressed in TA2, considering most attention will likely be placed on larger ticket items.
For me, it boils down to this. I have read the TA, I have attended the road shows, I have watched the webinar, I have spoken to the reps. I am taking some time to let my emotions pass and digest all this information. In a couple of weeks when I am able to approach this in a more rational frame of mind, I will re-evaluate everything I have learned and make the best business decision that I can. I encourage everyone to try and do the same. When this is over, and time has passed, we will know if we made the correct collaborative decision. Let’s hope we can all clear our minds and make the right choice. Until then, I respect all of your decisions. I will see you on the line.
12-16-2018, 03:53 PM
#183
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2017
Posts: 465
Sadly most will not do as you mention, fear is a powerful motivator. When this is over, and time has passed, we will know that we made the wrong collaborative decision.
12-16-2018, 04:12 PM
#184
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,363
If the $75 million is supposedly "retro" or the difference between this start of this TA and when LOA67 was supposed to give raises (arguing the amount is a different story althogether), why wouldn't that # go up when this is voted down and an new TA needs to be considered? Regardless of whether it's 6 months or 2 years, the next NC would go into negotiations w/ that as an automatic need to obtain. And really, what would be the company's reason for NOT giving more - because we didn't accept the first TA? Agreeing to the $75 million in the first place is the company acknowledging we've been underpaid for X amount of time.
So, not increasing that amount of back pay makes zero business sense. If TA1 is inadequate and therefore NEEDED to be voted down, the improvement or improvements of TA2 would naturally accompany a greater "retro" portion. That figure is essentially X + however long it takes to get a TA that the pilots agree to. The reason for voting no are to get improvements - assuming improvements aren't a possibility means there really weren't any negotiations. We just accepted whatever they offered (take it or leave it).
So, for any of those pilots who are voting yes because they don't think there will be improvements AND the supposed time value of money losses will be too great don't understand airline history or just labor union history in general. What's the point of a union if you can't say no during negotiations? Either way, the pilots (ALL OF US) will get our say. People talk a lot but at the end of the day, I'm betting there are more people dissatisfied to the point where voting Yes is just too much of an admission of lower self worth than they are willing to accept.
It's one thing to accept less than Delta but completely another to accept less than Spirit.
And i'm curious, Ghostrider. If you've been here for 12+, why does it say you're a new hire and you just joined APC?
Last edited by dracir1; 12-16-2018 at 04:52 PM.
12-16-2018, 04:40 PM
#185
Gets Weekends Off
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Nov 2016
Posts: 617
If we send a new NC in that is more militant I could see this dragging on for years longer. I don’t believe Indigo needs a contract so bad that they’ll just give us all of our demands. There may be slightly more they have to give, but what would we have to give up to get it? I’m not happy with this TA, but these are valid concerns.
12-16-2018, 05:11 PM
#186
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,363
This is my biggest concern. I expect if we send the same NC back to the negotiating table that they’d accept the notion that the overall cost of the TA must remain the same because it’s “the best we can do” and QOL items (that do have a cost associated with them) will be traded away for a higher pay rate.
If we send a new NC in that is more militant I could see this dragging on for years longer. I don’t believe Indigo needs a contract so bad that they’ll just give us all of our demands. There may be slightly more they have to give, but what would we have to give up to get it? I’m not happy with this TA, but these are valid concerns.
If we send a new NC in that is more militant I could see this dragging on for years longer. I don’t believe Indigo needs a contract so bad that they’ll just give us all of our demands. There may be slightly more they have to give, but what would we have to give up to get it? I’m not happy with this TA, but these are valid concerns.
Voting No on TA1 does SEVERAL things: First, it's a clear sign to both the company that we're not "F"ing around and that we demand what's fair. Second, it tells potential new hires that we as a collective group are willing to take however long it takes to get what we want. The possibility of a TA2 or even TA3 would be real despite how long that actual timeframe might be. Read my post above about retro pay - TA2 or 3 shouldn't assume we end up w/ less because of the timeframe it took to get them.
Third, and most important, this pilot group would show ITSELF the resolve and resiliency that many pilot (and other) groups have shown in the past. There have been machinist and flight attendent unions that have negotiated longer than we have.
Labor History and Passenger Outrage in the U.S. Airline Industry
Airline Strikes | The National Mediation Board
12-16-2018, 05:18 PM
#187
Line Holder
Joined APC: Dec 2018
Posts: 42
Dracir1, with all due respect. Your last paragraph is the reason most Frontier pilots are not on APC. In a perfect world, the forum could be used as a place where pilots could respectfully discuss either side of this or other issues. That would help everyone make educated decisions. Unfortunately, it has digressed where emotion has often replaced respect, and useful discussions are replaced with individuals trying to influence others to their point of view. This happens on both sides of the coin. Also, no need to question everyone’s identity who makes a new post on APC, especially an unbiased one. This is one of the most significant decisions this group will make in a decade. Due to the nature of that, it is expected to have several new voices engaged in the discussion. Good luck with your wishes and I hope either way things work out for you.
12-16-2018, 05:43 PM
#188
Banned
Joined APC: Nov 2008
Position: doggy style
Posts: 1,006
12-16-2018, 05:47 PM
#189
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Feb 2014
Position: Lineholder
Posts: 1,363
Dracir1, with all due respect. Your last paragraph is the reason most Frontier pilots are not on APC. In a perfect world, the forum could be used as a place where pilots could respectfully discuss either side of this or other issues. That would help everyone make educated decisions. Unfortunately, it has digressed where emotion has often replaced respect, and useful discussions are replaced with individuals trying to influence others to their point of view. This happens on both sides of the coin. Also, no need to question everyone’s identity who makes a new post on APC, especially an unbiased one. This is one of the most significant decisions this group will make in a decade. Due to the nature of that, it is expected to have several new voices engaged in the discussion. Good luck with your wishes and I hope either way things work out for you.
If you were sitting at a table in a discussion w/ 12 other people and someone you don't know just walked up and started discussing the matter, is it really that much of a stretch to ask them who they are?
If that was your last post (and I or anyone else scared you away due to some perceived rudeness or whatever), then thank you for your input thus far. Best of luck to the both of us. But, if you are who you say you are, YOU and your year group are most certainly welcome here. Perhaps it's voices from the collective you that is needed most.
If you are NOT who you say you are (some management troll posing as an old head in a propoganda attempt), I would request w/ the greatest amount of politeness possible, to GFY.
12-16-2018, 06:38 PM
#190
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jan 2018
Posts: 461
Spirit Contract: LTD
L. Long-Term Disability (LTD)
The Company shall continue to provide a core LTD plan and an
optional buy-up LTD plan with the same terms as in effect on the
DOS except as amended by this Section L.
1. The core Company-paid Long-Term Disability (LTD) coverage
(which has a $5,000-per-month maximum monthly
benefit amount) shall include own occupation coverage, as
defined below, until mandatory retirement age.
2. The Company shall also offer pilots a buy-up option so that
they may buy up to a $15,000-per-month maximum monthly
benefit amount. The buy-up plan shall also include own occupation
coverage, as defined below, until mandatory retirement
age.
3. Pilots on LTD will have access to medical and dental insurance
at active pilot rates for sixty (60) months so long as
the Company continues to offer the plan to active employees
and under the same terms and coverage as active employees.
Disabled pilots continuing coverage under this provision
shall be given the same opportunity to change plans at open
enrollment as active pilots.
4. For pilots participating in the optional LTD buy-up, increases
in the rate for the LTD buy-up will not increase by more than
five (5) percent at each renewal of the LTD policy during the
term of the Agreement.
5. At the disabled pilot’s option, accrued sick leave and vacation
may be used to cover the difference between the pilot’s
LTD benefits and his Predisability Earnings.
6. The following definition of disability, or an equivalent definition
of disability in substance, will apply to LTD coverage:
A Pilot will be considered disabled if he is limited from
performing the material and substantial duties of his own
occupation due to sickness or injury; and the Pilot has a 20%
Section 27: Insurance Benefits 27-5
or more loss in indexed monthly earnings due to the same
sickness or injury. The Pilot must be under the regular care
of a physician in order to be considered disabled. The loss of
a professional or occupational license or certification does
not, in itself, constitute a disability. However, loss of FAA
Medical Certification (or inability to exercise same) due to
a disability is considered an inability to perform the Pilot’s
own occupation. Disability benefits will continue until the
Pilot is both physically able to return to work and able to
exercise his Medical certificate. Own occupation means the
essential functions the Pilot regularly performs that provide
the Pilot’s primary source of income at the time of disability.
The Company shall continue to provide a core LTD plan and an
optional buy-up LTD plan with the same terms as in effect on the
DOS except as amended by this Section L.
1. The core Company-paid Long-Term Disability (LTD) coverage
(which has a $5,000-per-month maximum monthly
benefit amount) shall include own occupation coverage, as
defined below, until mandatory retirement age.
2. The Company shall also offer pilots a buy-up option so that
they may buy up to a $15,000-per-month maximum monthly
benefit amount. The buy-up plan shall also include own occupation
coverage, as defined below, until mandatory retirement
age.
3. Pilots on LTD will have access to medical and dental insurance
at active pilot rates for sixty (60) months so long as
the Company continues to offer the plan to active employees
and under the same terms and coverage as active employees.
Disabled pilots continuing coverage under this provision
shall be given the same opportunity to change plans at open
enrollment as active pilots.
4. For pilots participating in the optional LTD buy-up, increases
in the rate for the LTD buy-up will not increase by more than
five (5) percent at each renewal of the LTD policy during the
term of the Agreement.
5. At the disabled pilot’s option, accrued sick leave and vacation
may be used to cover the difference between the pilot’s
LTD benefits and his Predisability Earnings.
6. The following definition of disability, or an equivalent definition
of disability in substance, will apply to LTD coverage:
A Pilot will be considered disabled if he is limited from
performing the material and substantial duties of his own
occupation due to sickness or injury; and the Pilot has a 20%
Section 27: Insurance Benefits 27-5
or more loss in indexed monthly earnings due to the same
sickness or injury. The Pilot must be under the regular care
of a physician in order to be considered disabled. The loss of
a professional or occupational license or certification does
not, in itself, constitute a disability. However, loss of FAA
Medical Certification (or inability to exercise same) due to
a disability is considered an inability to perform the Pilot’s
own occupation. Disability benefits will continue until the
Pilot is both physically able to return to work and able to
exercise his Medical certificate. Own occupation means the
essential functions the Pilot regularly performs that provide
the Pilot’s primary source of income at the time of disability.
I. Rescheduling
1. The rescheduling provisions in this Section 25.I will be
used for the purpose of operational recovery to prevent
flight cancellations or delay. A pilot may only be rescheduled
within a trip hour period. The intent of these provisions
is not to circumvent use of available reserves, open
time, X/Y, or junior assignment procedures. Except as provided
in Section 12.F, Crew Scheduling shall notify pilots
of changes to their trips or time available status as soon as
they are known. A Pilot assigned to a trip must be rescheduled
in accordance with the limitations of Sections 25 and
12. At no time may the Company schedule a pilot in excess
of 29 hours in a seven-day period.
2. a. A pilot rescheduled prior to his first flight leg will be paid
above guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay for each two
(2) minutes from two (2) hours after report time until either
block-out of the next rescheduled flight leg or release
into rest.
b. A pilot rescheduled after his first leg will be paid above
guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay for each two (2)
minutes from the later of original scheduled departure
time of the next flight leg or two (2) hours after block-in,
until either block-out of the next rescheduled flight leg or
release into rest.
c. A pilot who has blocked-in and is scheduled to proceed
to the layover hotel may be required by Crew Scheduling
to remain at the airport after block-in in order to be rescheduled.
In such cases, the pilot will be paid two hours
above guarantee at his regular hourly rate of pay whether
he is rescheduled or not.
3. A rescheduled Pilot must be rescheduled to return to his domicile
(RTD) no later than the End of the Original Trip Hour
Period (EOTHP) +4 hours. Flying may not be added to the
end of a scheduled or rescheduled trip that would result in
Section 25: Scheduling 25-21
the pilot returning to domicile following the EOTHP. (Prevent
assignment of open time via reschedule, e.g. no turns
added on last day unless the turn was part of the original
reassignment.)
4. If unable to comply with Paragraph I.3 above (i.e. EOTHP
+ more than 4 hours but within the Pilot’s remaining flight
and duty limits) due to unavailability of Spirit or other airline
flights, or CBA or FAR conflict, the Pilot will be rescheduled
to RTD (either operate or deadhead) as soon as possible unless
there is open flying from the city in which the Pilot is
located that returns to domicile within the Pilot’s remaining
flight and duty limits (with the Pilot’s concurrence).
5. If a Pilot is rescheduled to RTD pursuant to Paragraph I.4
above and operates the flight, the Pilot will be paid and credited
200% of the value of the RTD duty period above guarantee.
A pilot who deadheads pursuant to Paragraph I.4 above
will be credited above guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay
for each two (2) minutes of duty time > two (2) hours past
EOTHP.
6. Paragraphs I.3, I.4, and I.5 apply to a block of reserve days
(not trips) for a Reserve Pilot.
7. A pilot rescheduled into a duty period on his first scheduled
day off, will be paid and credited 200% of the value of that
duty period. Additionally, the following provisions apply:
a. Pilot shall be returned to his domicile and released into
domicile rest as early as possible on Spirit flight(s) except
as provided in Paragraph 7.b. below. RTD routing may
not exceed two (2) segments. The Pilot may be required
to operate no more than two (2) RTD segments. However,
the pilot may elect to perform additional segments if
requested by the Company.
b. Other airline flights must be booked in cases where there
is no Spirit service that would RTD that day, or in cases
25-22 Section 25: Scheduling
where Spirit service would exceed two segments (Day
Off #1), unless the pilot agrees to be scheduled to RTD
on Spirit.
c. Pilot must be notified of deadhead or flying responsibilities.
d. A Pilot who is initially notified that the RTD under Paragraph
7.a above will contain any flying and who is subsequently
not obligated to fly any portion of the RTD will
be paid and credited as if he flew the segment(s).
e. A Pilot notified of deadhead only pursuant to Paragraph
7.c above will not be denied release from further duty
and alternate deadhead, and retains pay and per diem as
if the deadhead was completed as scheduled.
8. A pilot rescheduled into duty period on a second or subsequent
scheduled day off, will be paid and credited 200% of
the value of the original trip, the new rescheduled trip, or any
subsequent reschedule, whichever is greater.
9. A pilot may waive CBA limits to facilitate deadhead RTD
and will be provided positive space deadhead on Spirit
flights, or at the option of Crew Scheduling, other airline
flights.
10. A pilot rescheduled under Paragraph I.4 or Paragraph I.7
above, or rescheduled to remain overnight in domicile not
planned as part of his original schedule will upon request, be
provided a Company paid hotel room.
11. A pilot may not be rescheduled to facilitate another pilot’s
training other than by displacement in accordance with Section
25.M.
12. A Regular or Relief pilot may not be rescheduled to reserve.
Section 25: Scheduling 25-23
13. A pilot rescheduled from his current trip shall be paid and
credited five (5) hours above guarantee for each rescheduled
duty period that touches 0100-0400 LDT, when the associated
duty period of the current trip did not touch 0100-0400
LDT, evaluated on a duty period by duty period basis.
14. When equivalent operational recovery options are available,
Crew Scheduling will reschedule the more junior pilot to the
extent practicable.
15. Crew Move-Up
In the event of an uncovered flight segment, trip, or the absence
of a pilot, a trip may be reassigned to any Regular,
Relief, or Reserve pilot who is legal, qualified, and available
to fly the uncovered flight segment or trip. When assigning
or rescheduling a pilot for a move-up it must be made with
the pilot’s consent, under the following guidelines:
a. Restore pilot to his original trip as soon as possible if
economically and logistically feasible.
b. Assign pilot to a trip or open flight segments, which will
return the pilot closest to the return date/time of their
original trip.
c. If accepted the pilot receives one and one half (1.5) additional
hours of pay and credit above minimum guarantee
per duty period of the move-up trip pairing, in addition
to pay protection for his original trip pairing.
Example: A pilot is scheduled for a trip pairing with a pay
credit of 20 hours. He accepts a move-up trip pairing with
a pay credit of 15 hours that contains two duty periods.
The pilot is paid above monthly guarantee three (3) hours,
and in addition, maintains the 20 hour pay credit protection
associated with his original trip pairing. The move-up
pairing over-blocks to 15:30. The pilot is paid 20 hours
plus the three (3) hours above his monthly guarantee.
25-24 Section 25: Scheduling
16. Time Available Pilots
a. A pilot will be notified of time available status if the
Company has reasonable cause to believe it will need to
reschedule him during the trip hour period. Pilots will
only be rescheduled in accordance with Section 25.I.
b. Time available pilots not scheduled for a trip by 24 hours
before the report time of the original trip hour period
will be automatically released from all duty for the first
day of their time available period. A pilot shall be released
from multi-day pairings one day at a time.
c. Time-available pilots not scheduled for a trip by 24
hours before the beginning of each subsequent calendar
day (0001) of the original trip hour period will be automatically
released from all duty for that day of their
time-available period.
1. The rescheduling provisions in this Section 25.I will be
used for the purpose of operational recovery to prevent
flight cancellations or delay. A pilot may only be rescheduled
within a trip hour period. The intent of these provisions
is not to circumvent use of available reserves, open
time, X/Y, or junior assignment procedures. Except as provided
in Section 12.F, Crew Scheduling shall notify pilots
of changes to their trips or time available status as soon as
they are known. A Pilot assigned to a trip must be rescheduled
in accordance with the limitations of Sections 25 and
12. At no time may the Company schedule a pilot in excess
of 29 hours in a seven-day period.
2. a. A pilot rescheduled prior to his first flight leg will be paid
above guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay for each two
(2) minutes from two (2) hours after report time until either
block-out of the next rescheduled flight leg or release
into rest.
b. A pilot rescheduled after his first leg will be paid above
guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay for each two (2)
minutes from the later of original scheduled departure
time of the next flight leg or two (2) hours after block-in,
until either block-out of the next rescheduled flight leg or
release into rest.
c. A pilot who has blocked-in and is scheduled to proceed
to the layover hotel may be required by Crew Scheduling
to remain at the airport after block-in in order to be rescheduled.
In such cases, the pilot will be paid two hours
above guarantee at his regular hourly rate of pay whether
he is rescheduled or not.
3. A rescheduled Pilot must be rescheduled to return to his domicile
(RTD) no later than the End of the Original Trip Hour
Period (EOTHP) +4 hours. Flying may not be added to the
end of a scheduled or rescheduled trip that would result in
Section 25: Scheduling 25-21
the pilot returning to domicile following the EOTHP. (Prevent
assignment of open time via reschedule, e.g. no turns
added on last day unless the turn was part of the original
reassignment.)
4. If unable to comply with Paragraph I.3 above (i.e. EOTHP
+ more than 4 hours but within the Pilot’s remaining flight
and duty limits) due to unavailability of Spirit or other airline
flights, or CBA or FAR conflict, the Pilot will be rescheduled
to RTD (either operate or deadhead) as soon as possible unless
there is open flying from the city in which the Pilot is
located that returns to domicile within the Pilot’s remaining
flight and duty limits (with the Pilot’s concurrence).
5. If a Pilot is rescheduled to RTD pursuant to Paragraph I.4
above and operates the flight, the Pilot will be paid and credited
200% of the value of the RTD duty period above guarantee.
A pilot who deadheads pursuant to Paragraph I.4 above
will be credited above guarantee one (1) minute of flight pay
for each two (2) minutes of duty time > two (2) hours past
EOTHP.
6. Paragraphs I.3, I.4, and I.5 apply to a block of reserve days
(not trips) for a Reserve Pilot.
7. A pilot rescheduled into a duty period on his first scheduled
day off, will be paid and credited 200% of the value of that
duty period. Additionally, the following provisions apply:
a. Pilot shall be returned to his domicile and released into
domicile rest as early as possible on Spirit flight(s) except
as provided in Paragraph 7.b. below. RTD routing may
not exceed two (2) segments. The Pilot may be required
to operate no more than two (2) RTD segments. However,
the pilot may elect to perform additional segments if
requested by the Company.
b. Other airline flights must be booked in cases where there
is no Spirit service that would RTD that day, or in cases
25-22 Section 25: Scheduling
where Spirit service would exceed two segments (Day
Off #1), unless the pilot agrees to be scheduled to RTD
on Spirit.
c. Pilot must be notified of deadhead or flying responsibilities.
d. A Pilot who is initially notified that the RTD under Paragraph
7.a above will contain any flying and who is subsequently
not obligated to fly any portion of the RTD will
be paid and credited as if he flew the segment(s).
e. A Pilot notified of deadhead only pursuant to Paragraph
7.c above will not be denied release from further duty
and alternate deadhead, and retains pay and per diem as
if the deadhead was completed as scheduled.
8. A pilot rescheduled into duty period on a second or subsequent
scheduled day off, will be paid and credited 200% of
the value of the original trip, the new rescheduled trip, or any
subsequent reschedule, whichever is greater.
9. A pilot may waive CBA limits to facilitate deadhead RTD
and will be provided positive space deadhead on Spirit
flights, or at the option of Crew Scheduling, other airline
flights.
10. A pilot rescheduled under Paragraph I.4 or Paragraph I.7
above, or rescheduled to remain overnight in domicile not
planned as part of his original schedule will upon request, be
provided a Company paid hotel room.
11. A pilot may not be rescheduled to facilitate another pilot’s
training other than by displacement in accordance with Section
25.M.
12. A Regular or Relief pilot may not be rescheduled to reserve.
Section 25: Scheduling 25-23
13. A pilot rescheduled from his current trip shall be paid and
credited five (5) hours above guarantee for each rescheduled
duty period that touches 0100-0400 LDT, when the associated
duty period of the current trip did not touch 0100-0400
LDT, evaluated on a duty period by duty period basis.
14. When equivalent operational recovery options are available,
Crew Scheduling will reschedule the more junior pilot to the
extent practicable.
15. Crew Move-Up
In the event of an uncovered flight segment, trip, or the absence
of a pilot, a trip may be reassigned to any Regular,
Relief, or Reserve pilot who is legal, qualified, and available
to fly the uncovered flight segment or trip. When assigning
or rescheduling a pilot for a move-up it must be made with
the pilot’s consent, under the following guidelines:
a. Restore pilot to his original trip as soon as possible if
economically and logistically feasible.
b. Assign pilot to a trip or open flight segments, which will
return the pilot closest to the return date/time of their
original trip.
c. If accepted the pilot receives one and one half (1.5) additional
hours of pay and credit above minimum guarantee
per duty period of the move-up trip pairing, in addition
to pay protection for his original trip pairing.
Example: A pilot is scheduled for a trip pairing with a pay
credit of 20 hours. He accepts a move-up trip pairing with
a pay credit of 15 hours that contains two duty periods.
The pilot is paid above monthly guarantee three (3) hours,
and in addition, maintains the 20 hour pay credit protection
associated with his original trip pairing. The move-up
pairing over-blocks to 15:30. The pilot is paid 20 hours
plus the three (3) hours above his monthly guarantee.
25-24 Section 25: Scheduling
16. Time Available Pilots
a. A pilot will be notified of time available status if the
Company has reasonable cause to believe it will need to
reschedule him during the trip hour period. Pilots will
only be rescheduled in accordance with Section 25.I.
b. Time available pilots not scheduled for a trip by 24 hours
before the report time of the original trip hour period
will be automatically released from all duty for the first
day of their time available period. A pilot shall be released
from multi-day pairings one day at a time.
c. Time-available pilots not scheduled for a trip by 24
hours before the beginning of each subsequent calendar
day (0001) of the original trip hour period will be automatically
released from all duty for that day of their
time-available period.
d. Limitations on Conversion to SCR:
25-36 Section 25: Scheduling
1) A pilot on LCR must be provided with a specific
RAP assignment when notified of conversion to
SCR.
2) LCR days may be converted to no more than four (4)
SCR RAPs in a bid month without the pilot’s concurrence.
Conversion to a SCR RAP that spans 0000
LDT is considered a single conversion occurrence.
One (1) LCR day may be converted to a single RAP
per occurrence (e.g. LCR 18JUN to R19 18JUN= 1
conversion occurrence).
3) Each of the first four (4) conversions in any bid
month will be credited one (1) hour above guarantee.
Each subsequent conversion(s) in the month
will be credited two (2) hours above guarantee per
occurrence.
4) Assign conversions using the following criteria:
i. group LCR and LCR pilots converted to SCR
that are legal and available for the SCR RAP to
be assigned by number of days of remaining reserve
availability,
ii. within each group, rank those pilots electing to
be called first, senior to junior, followed by the
remaining pilots, junior to senior
iii. pilots on a trip assignment shall be bypassed.
iv. a pilot who has been previously converted four
(4) times in the current bid month has the option
to refuse the conversion and remain on LCR.
25-36 Section 25: Scheduling
1) A pilot on LCR must be provided with a specific
RAP assignment when notified of conversion to
SCR.
2) LCR days may be converted to no more than four (4)
SCR RAPs in a bid month without the pilot’s concurrence.
Conversion to a SCR RAP that spans 0000
LDT is considered a single conversion occurrence.
One (1) LCR day may be converted to a single RAP
per occurrence (e.g. LCR 18JUN to R19 18JUN= 1
conversion occurrence).
3) Each of the first four (4) conversions in any bid
month will be credited one (1) hour above guarantee.
Each subsequent conversion(s) in the month
will be credited two (2) hours above guarantee per
occurrence.
4) Assign conversions using the following criteria:
i. group LCR and LCR pilots converted to SCR
that are legal and available for the SCR RAP to
be assigned by number of days of remaining reserve
availability,
ii. within each group, rank those pilots electing to
be called first, senior to junior, followed by the
remaining pilots, junior to senior
iii. pilots on a trip assignment shall be bypassed.
iv. a pilot who has been previously converted four
(4) times in the current bid month has the option
to refuse the conversion and remain on LCR.
F. Notification
1. The Company will not call a pilot between 2200 and 0800
unless there is a change in that pilot’s schedule that requires
a call during the time between 2200 and 0800. In this case,
the pilot may be called 90 minutes prior to the revised report
time, or sooner if necessary, provided the call is made so as
to minimize the disruption to the pilot’s rest.
2. The Company may not call a pilot during Section 12.A. rest
for purposes of advising the pilot of a scheduling, rescheduling,
or assignment except during the first or last hour of the
rest. The Company may call a pilot at any time during such
rest for a family emergency.
3. A pilot who is unable to report for duty will notify the Company
as far in advance as is practical.
G. The Company will not schedule any pilot, nor will a pilot accept
duty or assignment with the Company, if that duty or assignment
falls within any required rest period within this Section 12.
H. Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that the Company
requires of a pilot is not considered part of a rest period.
I. Regardless of the amount of rest provided as part of his trip, a
pilot is expected to be rested for duty.
1. The Company will not call a pilot between 2200 and 0800
unless there is a change in that pilot’s schedule that requires
a call during the time between 2200 and 0800. In this case,
the pilot may be called 90 minutes prior to the revised report
time, or sooner if necessary, provided the call is made so as
to minimize the disruption to the pilot’s rest.
2. The Company may not call a pilot during Section 12.A. rest
for purposes of advising the pilot of a scheduling, rescheduling,
or assignment except during the first or last hour of the
rest. The Company may call a pilot at any time during such
rest for a family emergency.
3. A pilot who is unable to report for duty will notify the Company
as far in advance as is practical.
G. The Company will not schedule any pilot, nor will a pilot accept
duty or assignment with the Company, if that duty or assignment
falls within any required rest period within this Section 12.
H. Time spent in transportation, not local in character, that the Company
requires of a pilot is not considered part of a rest period.
I. Regardless of the amount of rest provided as part of his trip, a
pilot is expected to be rested for duty.
Spirit Contract: Access and Reporting
3. Access and Reporting
a. The Company will provide unrestricted access to two Association
members for the purposes of monitoring Electronic
Shift Trade programming for CBA compliance.
Any licensing fees required to allow the designees access
from an online location will be paid by the Company.
b. A Crew Utilization Report will be provided electronically
or by hard copy by the 7th of every month and will
include the following:
25-48 Section 25: Scheduling
1) Sick days/hours used during the monthly bid period;
and hours from same month of the previous year
2) Junior assignment by domicile, equipment, and position
3) Hours flown by Management Pilots
4) Vacations canceled by the Company
5) Reassignments
6) Declared irregular ops events
c. The following information will be made available upon
request:
1) A daily log of all pilots called for junior assignment
2) Number of reserve pilots called to fly on their days
off
3) Pairing numbers flown by all Management Pilots
4) Pairing numbers flown by a reserve pilot
5) Daily assignments for reserve pilots
6) Releases from duty periods for reserve pilots
7) Original and modified pairings
8) Time dropped from a pilot’s schedule due to legality
issues
9) Drop requests denied
10) An archive of the daily open time transactions
a. The Company will provide unrestricted access to two Association
members for the purposes of monitoring Electronic
Shift Trade programming for CBA compliance.
Any licensing fees required to allow the designees access
from an online location will be paid by the Company.
b. A Crew Utilization Report will be provided electronically
or by hard copy by the 7th of every month and will
include the following:
25-48 Section 25: Scheduling
1) Sick days/hours used during the monthly bid period;
and hours from same month of the previous year
2) Junior assignment by domicile, equipment, and position
3) Hours flown by Management Pilots
4) Vacations canceled by the Company
5) Reassignments
6) Declared irregular ops events
c. The following information will be made available upon
request:
1) A daily log of all pilots called for junior assignment
2) Number of reserve pilots called to fly on their days
off
3) Pairing numbers flown by all Management Pilots
4) Pairing numbers flown by a reserve pilot
5) Daily assignments for reserve pilots
6) Releases from duty periods for reserve pilots
7) Original and modified pairings
8) Time dropped from a pilot’s schedule due to legality
issues
9) Drop requests denied
10) An archive of the daily open time transactions
Spirit Contract: Monitoring Devices
K. Monitoring Devices
1. The Company shall not use any information gathered from a
cockpit voice recorder in any disciplinary or discharge action.
2. The Company will not regularly or randomly review flight
data recorder data or cockpit voice recordings for the purpose
of discovering pilot irregularities. The Company shall not use
any information gathered from a flight data recorder in any
disciplinary or discharge action, unless the information becomes
a matter of public record in an NTSB proceeding.
Section 26: General 26-3
3. The Company shall not use any information obtained by use
of an electronic device that monitors or records pilots’ performance
on an aircraft as a basis, in whole or in part, to
conduct a non-recurrent proficiency check or line check.
4. MEC Notification
a. The Company shall advise the MEC in writing of the
equipment presently on Company aircraft that is capable
of monitoring pilot performance on an aircraft and what
that equipment is currently used for. If such equipment is
not presently being used for such purpose, the Company
shall advise the MEC in writing before such equipment
is used for such purposes.
b. The Company, on an ongoing basis, shall advise the
MEC in writing of any equipment, and its intended use,
that is to be installed on Company aircraft in the future
and that is capable of monitoring pilot performance on
an aircraft. The Company shall also immediately advise
the MEC of any additions or changes to this intended
use.
1. The Company shall not use any information gathered from a
cockpit voice recorder in any disciplinary or discharge action.
2. The Company will not regularly or randomly review flight
data recorder data or cockpit voice recordings for the purpose
of discovering pilot irregularities. The Company shall not use
any information gathered from a flight data recorder in any
disciplinary or discharge action, unless the information becomes
a matter of public record in an NTSB proceeding.
Section 26: General 26-3
3. The Company shall not use any information obtained by use
of an electronic device that monitors or records pilots’ performance
on an aircraft as a basis, in whole or in part, to
conduct a non-recurrent proficiency check or line check.
4. MEC Notification
a. The Company shall advise the MEC in writing of the
equipment presently on Company aircraft that is capable
of monitoring pilot performance on an aircraft and what
that equipment is currently used for. If such equipment is
not presently being used for such purpose, the Company
shall advise the MEC in writing before such equipment
is used for such purposes.
b. The Company, on an ongoing basis, shall advise the
MEC in writing of any equipment, and its intended use,
that is to be installed on Company aircraft in the future
and that is capable of monitoring pilot performance on
an aircraft. The Company shall also immediately advise
the MEC of any additions or changes to this intended
use.
Short Call 3 Hours
Non-Corndog Per Diem
You were kidding though, right?
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