CantStayAway

Thanks. I was just going off of the post earlier about 4.5 hour average duty. Once PBS is in place it’s even better for you guys. That’s great and helps make my point stronger. Average duty without at least a phantom duty period for long overnights is almost worthless.

chinookwinds

Perfect..
Me too attitude!
So, “YOU”, will be OK if “YOU” ,end of with a few of the 3 day DFW beauties worth 10 hours on your schedule??

PorkandBeans

"Alaska, JetBlue and United all get 5 hours min duty per day “averaged” by the number of duty periods of the trip. Spirit’s language says “Four and one-half hours per duty period for the entire trip”.

American gets 5:15 per calendar day that flys through 2am “averaged” as well

Not sure about the rest but looks to be pretty standard in the industry"

The above is inaccurate and cherry picked. The airlines you mention also aren't point to point airlines, which makes whatever you're trying to say even less valid.

The "averaged" vs. duty day is the most important caveat to this contract as far as the quality of the schedule, especially with a point to point airline. That's with pref bidding not even considered as far as your schedule quality. Pref bidding makes it worse the way both of these software packages function.

I think at this point the best thing to do is speak with trusted friends at other airlines. Pilots who know how this software works. I believe you owe it to yourselves rather than listen to anonymous and dubious opinions. You want to include my post as dubious? Then do that, please.

Being senior and thinking day turns will save you from any misery is a mistake. I do not see a 25% unstacking protection as someone mentioned, either, but putting that parameter into a pref bid solution wreaks havoc on the bottom 75%.

Make no mistake, this airline will fly its schedule no matter how much whining comes from the scheduling committee. An arbitrator will never agree flights must be cancelled for no other reason than FAR violations or contractual agreement ie., 12 days off. So the argument for quality scheduling can only go so far.

From a software perspective, when you launch this system into a point to point flying schedule, the flexibility is severely hampered by lack of frequency into the cities where Frontier flies.

The only way to ensure some control over the quality of the schedule is by setting a proper rule set (parameters) by contractual agreement.

GoCats67

Can't say about Alaska or JB, but United's is actually 5 hours per Calendar day. (true calendar midnight to midnight) If a trip touches 4 calendar days then it pays 20 hours minimum.

Hopefully that will get raised in the new contract to higher than American's 5:15, but keep our midnight to midnight day definition.

ReserveCA

No amount of “road show propaganda” will change the fact that this TA is so sub par industry bottom.......
Cut to the chase...let’s vote

sMFer

Avoid PBS like the plague. I had it at 2 regionals and QOL goes down dramatically unless you have iron clad language and good PBS rules to back it up. I've been told it can be done. Here's a January line bid for 2 weeks of vacation at SW. With standard PBS, this would have trips all over the place on days off.

Of course this won't always happen, but the possibility is there.


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CantStayAway

This could be done at Frontier under the new PBS. The difference would be credit. It would only pay a Frontier pilot 70 hours plus the value of that single day trip. I’m not defending the proposal, but just clearing up any possible misconceptions.

monkeybrains

It could actually pay 90(if you assigned credit to inviolate days) but that extra credit would come out of your vacation bank and wouldn’t be available in other weeks.

Gary et al

Lets assume that is a nice big credit trip too @ 8 hours. That means we would credit 78 where he is crediting 93.15. At 200/hr that $3000...with 4 weeks in the year and 900 credit hours per year that is a $6.77/hr concession we are taking.

Put another way, if we were making an average $7/hr more, this aspect of our new TA wouldn't be as bad. The money would just be reallocated. But in reality...we aren't getting the money.

dracir1

I think this, as well as other small amounts of money being lost, is what is being missed by some. Billionaires become billionaires by caring about all money - large and small amounts. Saving $0.10 a pilot per hour is worth millions over the life of a contract for them.

This TA, when compared to INDUSTRY AVERAGE, has the pilots missing out a a lot. Good example is duty day. If we're paid 5 hours per duty day vs. AVERAGE duty day, a 4 day trip that has a greater than 24 hour layover will pay 15 hours min (vs 20). At 12 year CA rate, that's one trip that could pay $245 x 5 or $1200 less.

There are many different areas where the TA just gives up to much..