DimpledBalls

👆👆👆👆This guy gets it. This TA is a complete disaster.

Aero1900

This contract is not cost neutral. You are seriously delusional.

Let me guess, the 75 million is cost neutral too? Raising pay rates by 50%, increased rig and retirement contributions are cost neutral? When this passes and your W2 next year is 50% higher, come back on here and explain how that's cost neutral.

Let's try and be rational here. Saying things that are so obviously untrue doesn't help the conversation at all.

V1 McFlyerson

You’re arguing the 75M isn’t cost neutral? Oh, that’s rich. Good one!

I’d say it’s WAY BETTER than cost neutral for the company. Enjoy casting your ballot.

Wheelswatch

Are you serious Aero? We're paying ourselves the retro from our lost wages, and only a percentage of it. Indigo gets to keep the rest. We also lost all the potential interest or growth on that money, whereas they kept it and now earn money on that money ad infinitum.

For years this contract will be subsidized by our own discount of working for half off for so long.

We needed to be brought up into the fold, not just under it. Did you see blackhawk IP's graph? With that pathetic **** yellow line?

You're so out of touch.

Aero1900

I am serious. And don't call me Shirley.

Here's the thing, by voting NO, we are just allowing this situation to continue! Possibly for a lengthy period of time. We are never getting full retro, and we're never going on strike. Voting this down costs us a lot of money and unless we can produce substantial gains in a short period of time, we will never recover.

By voting no, you are allowing frontier to continue to profit off your sub par wages for longer. If it takes 12 months or 18 months to come up with TA2, we will not makeup the lost wages. It sucks, but it's true.

Aero1900

The best part of this deal is that it only took 2.5 years to get. Not 5 like Jimmy Nides promised. Let's not make him right.

If we vote it down, it will take much longer to reach a deal and in the meantime you are allowing frontier to profit off your back. All those that are complaining about the contract duration aren't thinking about the cost of delaying this for a year or longer.

butthert

This is right on aero
You will never convince these bunch a gimmedats though. They call it fear but we call it reality. No voters are willing to gamble your financial future away for an extra ten cents in perdiem and crew meals but turn around and call you selfish. The hypocrisy abounds.

Gary et al

Aero, I respect you, and your typically logical posts. I can understand what both sides are saying with the cost neutral argument, but I lean more towards you here. Yes of course had they been paying us money all along then this would be more or less "neutral" but it will clearly cost them a lot more money than the contract we have in place now.

What I can not understand is how you are only looking at the money??? I completely understand the time value of money, the potential to not make it all back but this is so much more than that. This contract has some horribly weak language and our quality of life will absolutely get worse. Reserves make some good gains, but they also loose out in other ways. Line holders loose out entirely and basically PER THE LANGUAGE turn into reserves once they show up for work! This deal is worth sending back based on loose language alone, it is worse than what we have now! I absolutely believe that our management team WILL exploit this loopholes as they have proven to do in the past. Heck, they have disregarded the contract entirely, so of course they will exploit what is clear as day for them to be able to.

You're a logical person, look past the money.

And then look at this guy ^ this management TROLL. Hey butthert, it's the weekend, do they make you come in on Saturday's or are you gung-ho and working from home? Aero and others...just look at all these management trolls who are pushing and pushing to get this through. They have no substance, they ARE management, management loves this deal because they will bend you over day by day when you come to work. Sure you'll make more money, but less than your peers all while being used and abused so much worse!

butthert

GhostRider22

This is a precarious position that the group has been put in. The financial gains are significant, although still far below our peers. The work rules have certain gains, however, it is debatable whether the improvements outweigh the losses. Reserves can gain more money, but at the cost of their flexibility and hence quality of life. Line holders who like to fly can still make premium pay, although at the cost of standard overrides the whole group should enjoy. Additionally, they trade away their freedom from scheduling. My concern on that item stems from previous experiences. When pilot staffing levels are low and reserves are gone, rather then incentivize a trip, they simply send an ACARS. “Please call scheduling when you land.” This can be much more frequent then many Frontier pilots have experienced. I for one, would rather choose when/if I acquire premium pay. The reality, even if we attain a TA2, how many of these items will actually be addressed. My guess is larger items such as Payrates, Longetivity, Retirement, and Duration May take priority. And, the gains in those areas will only go so far. So, in the end, it comes down to this. Which coarse of action will ultimately generate the most gains for us as a group. Unfortunately, we don’t have a crystal ball to predict the future, un-written PBS language, or the true reality and day to day impact of these changes. Let’s hope as a group, we end up choosing the correct path. In time, we will know.