Yeah, ULCCs do better, this is true. But ULCCs would do even better if our CS/ops wasnt so poor that it drives people away in said economy. You can only "keep reducing costs" so much. They also do it in the wrong areas. If getting Lido meant reducing costs, I would hope the money went towards better CS and gate agents that they were saving money on prior. I know it didnt though.

 

Majors have been putting a dent in ULCC’s by offering a portion of the cabin with cheap seats. How big an impact? I don’t know but we should find out when there is a real downturn, not this slowing down from all time traveling records.

 

The legacies are limited as to how much they can do that, constrained by their cost structure. At some point it makes more sense to park the plane because it's not making money for them anymore.

 

Yeah, you don't really hear much about the "basic economy" tickets. I don't think the legacies sell many of them.

Delta and United ticket prices are very high right now and are going up. We have a place in this market. We just need to get our sh|t together

 

Most of the seats on planes I see are full. That includes “basic economy” and First Class seats.

 

Gordon Bethune once said "You can make a pizza so cheap, nobody will eat it. You can make an airline so cheap, nobody will fly it."

Rumors are Delta is going to drop "basic economy" as they pivot to focus more on the high value customers. The other legacies will surely follow. Yet another failed airline within an airline scheme.

As an outside your company perspective, your problem at F9 isn't the economy contracting or leisure travel decreasing, it's because your product sucks. It's appalling to walk past one of your gates and watch some ghetto person on the PA yelling at and taunting your passengers. Practically inciting them. Happens every day. If you weren't late and canceled all the time and screwing people over, you wouldn't have these problems. Word has gotten around and leisure passengers are choosing other ULCCs or buying discount tickets on legacies because they actually want to get where they are going. Until your management fixes this problem, you're going to continue to suffer. All other discussion is moot.

If I worked at Frontier, I'd vote with my feet, regardless of seniority. The hiring door is still open and you can still upgrade in a year at Delta or United and make way more than you'll ever see at F9. But that isn't going to last forever.

 

Very true, first class is full. Full of last minute upgrades due to open seats.

 

this may not age well.

 

We can only hope that a purchase will end this failed experiment.

 

Why do I never see videos of Allegiant with rioting people. They seem to be making pretty good profits too.

I agree though. I wouldn’t buy a ticket on us either I hate to say. But I don’t shop at Walmart or Harbor freight tools either.

ULCC in Europe is a different. A few years ago I flew 5 legs on 3 different ULCC there. It was reliable and everyone was nice. I believe it’s because they have a certain minimum wage and maybe less trashy people than the US. Also you have guaranteed health care in most EU countries.