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Originally Posted by LifetimeCFI
(Post 3755779)
My comments are from things several of us were told at HQ very recently. Sure, attrition may well go up. It probably will go up, commuting on turns is simply not feasible from what I'm told. But as things are now, they haven't lost many pilots and are looking at cutting the March new hire class.
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Originally Posted by planejoe
(Post 3755790)
Oh I'm not doubting at all that's what they told you at HQ lol, we just had the holidays / new year, I'd equate the attrition slow down to that rather than their reason. Either way wish you the best of luck.
I’ve observed an interesting trend that makes total sense what you think about it. 10, 20 years ago we were a small Denver based airline, and nearly all the pilots lived in or near to CO. Those pilots from this era who are still on the list but not senior enough to hold Denver are the most vocally opposed to day trips. Heck, even a huge chunk of the Colorado folks who are actually senior enough to hold Denver live an hour or even more from DEN, so naturally, they hate day trips too. There is a huge population who has been displaced from Denver over time and they chafe at the idea of commuting to day trips in LAS or PHX. in the last couple years, we shifted into shorter trips. Now we’re going to be doing nearly exclusively day trips. Consequently, those who have joined the last year or two have joined with that expectation and are generally enthusiastic about day trips. Or at least they were, before finding out they’re now going to be displaced to the Midwest or Puerto Rico. I know in my base on the FO side day trips go very senior. Captain side is the exact opposite. |
Originally Posted by BobSacamano
(Post 3755812)
I’ve observed an interesting trend that makes total sense what you think about it. 10, 20 years ago we were a small Denver based airline, and nearly all the pilots lived in or near to CO. Those pilots from this era who are still on the list but not senior enough to hold Denver are the most vocally opposed to day trips. Heck, even a huge chunk of the Colorado folks who are actually senior enough to hold Denver live an hour or even more from DEN, so naturally, they hate day trips too. There is a huge population who has been displaced from Denver over time and they chafe at the idea of commuting to day trips in LAS or PHX.
in the last couple years, we shifted into shorter trips. Now we’re going to be doing nearly exclusively day trips. Consequently, those who have joined the last year or two have joined with that expectation and are generally enthusiastic about day trips. Or at least they were, before finding out they’re now going to be displaced to the Midwest or Puerto Rico. I know in my base on the FO side day trips go very senior. Captain side is the exact opposite. You just don’t hear about it, because the squeakiest wheels complain about it on this board. |
Originally Posted by HSCompressor
(Post 3755828)
Theres a lot of people who like the 1-2 trips. Including commuters (efficient trips, high credit, commutable on both ends, nice crash pad/car).
You just don’t hear about it, because the squeakiest wheels complain about it on this board. But they HAVE to be efficient. We have WAY too many 5hr turns. 10hr 2 days, even 10-11hr 3 days that arent commutable on either end. |
Originally Posted by spooldup
(Post 3755840)
I absolutely love 1 and 2 day trips even some 3 days.
But they HAVE to be efficient. We have WAY too many 5hr turns. 10hr 2 days, even 10-11hr 3 days that arent commutable on either end. Someone would have to correct me on this, but I believe SW is about 6.5 per day. |
Originally Posted by HSCompressor
(Post 3755851)
You know what that sounds like to me? A great argument for an increased min credit. Just sayin.
Someone would have to correct me on this, but I believe SW is about 6.5 per day. That would be awesome. But it doesn't stop the 6am show on day 1 for a 11:30pm arrival on day 2. Thats just the nature of the pairings, but IT WOULD allow us to get out of the company's "clock out at 12am or later to get out of paying us more if we are delayed (which we usually are) into the day off. |
Originally Posted by LifetimeCFI
(Post 3755763)
They're getting backed up. They canceled the Feb class and had about 40 planned for it. Of those 40 about 23 were cadets. 2 got bumped up into January the rest are waiting for the first available class date.
Speaking of. They may not have a March class. Apparently attrition wasn't what they expected.. Lost fewer pilots than anticipated when they went to day turns. They are going to decide within 2 weeks if there will be a March class. If there isn't, Feb folks get April. March folks get May or longer depending on how they divy slots up. If you interviewed in the fall I have no idea where you will be placed. The two guys they hired the day I visited were told by the hiring folks that it's about a 6 month wait. You honest to god might be looking at May or June at this point. Now if they do cancel their March class.. Good sign for the company as the attrition isn't terrible but inevitably it probably will pick up for a variety of reasons. I'm curious if we see a situation where there is no March class, or perhaps a very small one, but a large April one as they start to get hit with higher attrition... I don't pretend to know. Who told you this in HQ? Ive heard otherwise from Check airmen and Management. In the end it doesn’t really matter. All that matters is when you class date really comes and what our attrition really ends up being. Again, we are now at 15.4 pilots per plane. Open time is a ghost town and has been for a while. So Ive revised the number of pilots needed to only 15 per plane and we still would need to hire about 35 per month to cover the fleet. That assumes the 30% attrition rate continues and no aircraft groundings. Either one of those can change the equation overnight. Also, as plane joe mentions. We haven’t moved to day trips yet. It takes 3-6 months for a complete schedule change. It won’t really start happening until spring. So how can they know how much people love it? |
Originally Posted by spooldup
(Post 3755840)
I absolutely love 1 and 2 day trips even some 3 days.
But they HAVE to be efficient. We have WAY too many 5hr turns. 10hr 2 days, even 10-11hr 3 days that arent commutable on either end. and 2 day trips also. But I also live close to airport . We all have our thing. |
Originally Posted by madmax757
(Post 3755870)
I purposely bid reserve as I live in base. I like 1
and 2 day trips also. But I also live close to airport . We all have our thing. |
There just hasn't been enough time for the day trip idea to be digested by all the pilots yet. One of my best friends put his app in to AA in October, had a November interview, and now has a February class date. Another buddy is approximately the same time line, but to UA. For some of my other friends and acquaintances, it took the rapid opening of the 3 C bases to realize they aren't joking about the day trips, like they were before. Two of them just got CJOs recently. Lastly, someone in my new hire class, who I never thought would leave, is now filling out apps because of the last memo from BL about switching to day trips. It was his straw for the camel, I guess he didn't believe everything else leading up to that memo, ha.
It takes time for people to get their logbook and apps together, wait for a reply, schedule an interview, and get a CJO. I know it's all anecdotal, but from the people I know, I've never seen a desire to get out be so high. I would be floored if in 8 to 12 months we look back and don't say, wow a lot of people left in March - October. |
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