Originally Posted by monkeybrains (Post 3576397)

looks like they did a month ago.

Fellow pilots,
Recently, the company introduced its latest scheme to attract pilots and slow attrition at Frontier by offering $35,000 “signing bonuses” attached to a three- year employment commitment. ALPA opposes this ploy, as we believe that our airline’s inability to attract and retain pilots stems from a larger cultural problem that can only be addressed by an overhaul of management’s approach to labor relations. However, we feel it appropriate to leave the systemic problems aside for the moment and address just the bonus program.
First, pilots should be made aware of how the program was launched. Based on the rollout we are not certain management considered U.S. tax law when designing the program, which requires that participants sign a $35,000 promissory note. In fact, the first eligible new hires were still in ground school when the company demanded that they sign amended documents changing the terms of the agreement. Pilots were informed that they would now be charged interest on their “bonus” at a rate of 4.1%. In addition, each new hire pilot who accepts the funds will be charged income taxes on the $35,000 once their three- year commitment is complete and the promissory note is forgiven. Finally, any pilot who accepts this money and does not fulfill their obligation will not benefit from any proration of amount owed to the company.
More relevant to our current pilot group, the bonus program clearly violates Section 3.R of the CBA by offering a bonus to new hires, excluding all other Frontier pilots on the seniority list. Section 3.R. provides that, “Pilots of Frontier Airlines, Inc. shall participate in any Discretionary Bonus Program on the same terms and conditions of other non-management employees.” The unambiguous intent of this provision is for all pilots to be included in all bonus offerings that are provided to any employees of Frontier. The seemingly clever approach of giving a bonus in this way is merely an attempt to end-run around our CBA.
Furthermore, the bonus program violates the contract by circumventing LOA 4. This LOA, negotiated between Frontier and ALPA in 2019, allows the company to raise first-year hourly rates to 98.5% of second-year hourly rates. The intent of LOA 4 was to give the company the ability to attract pilots with increased pay in a manner that complies with the CBA. However, instead of utilizing the contractual mechanism already available to them within LOA 4, they chose to proceed in a manner that is not contractually compliant. Notably, the company

Air Line Pilots Association, International
www.alpa.org
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has chosen not to raise new hire pay to the levels agreed to by ALPA under the LOA.
Frontier pilots flying the line are the backbone of this company, and the safe, efficient, and profitable operation of this airline falls squarely upon our shoulders. Management’s choice to flout our contract and dangle a one-time cash payment to entice new pilots while ignoring those already wearing a Frontier uniform is short-sighted and will do nothing to improve retention in this historic job market.
ALPA has filed an Association grievance challenging the bonus program. We continue to object to management’s attempts to gut the protections afforded by our CBA and will keep the pilot group updated as the process unfolds. As always, your continued professionalism will allow this pilot group to rise above. If you have any questions, please contact your elected representatives or send us a DART.
In unity, FFT ME

Originally Posted by JoeFever1 (Post 3576456)

Yay. Another sternly worded email.

Originally Posted by Xdashdriver (Post 3576458)

I guess you missed the part about them filing an association grievance then...which is all they can legally do.

Originally Posted by ReserveCA (Post 3576523)

yay…..
another grievance for the company to ignore

Originally Posted by ReserveCA (Post 3576523)

yay…..
another grievance for the company to ignore

Originally Posted by citationxtango (Post 3576158)

I agree with everything you're saying. I really don't see how anyone thinks of this as a legitimate 'bonus'. I just thought I would clarify what the current language the company is using to explain this 'bonus'. The tax and interest implications are not insignificant, so it is a tough choice, even if you think you'll be staying for 36 + months. 3 years is a long time in this business... I am excited to join F9 and have no plans of going anywhere for a long time, but the fine print on this has to make you stop and think. If I was in my early 20's and naive about these things I'm sure I would take it and immediately go out and buy a V6 Camaro, now I'm happy to have enough wisdom to at least sit on it and let it earn me money, if I decide to take it.

Originally Posted by Xdashdriver (Post 3576551)

The company doesn't get to ignore grievances. Concede, settle, defend, yes but not ignore. But that doesn't fit your long standing narrative so you'll likely ignore it.

Originally Posted by 05wt (Post 3576818)

For what it is worth…I just had one settled for double what I asked for. Granted it took more than a year…

Originally Posted by 05wt (Post 3576818)

For what it is worth…I just had one settled for double what I asked for. Granted it took more than a year…

Originally Posted by dracir1 (Post 3577036)

Regardless of what you call it, it’s free money.

I agree that not all money is good money but:

if put the money in at least a money market or higher interest savings of at least 5%, and don’t touch it until you get the signed paperwork from the company that the “loan” or whatever it is is forgiven, then you come out ahead. If you get a CJO from another or get fired or otherwise leave before you get that’s paper, withdraw the money and interest and give it back. Unless I understand this incorrectly, it really is that simple.

And, if you can’t find a way for abstain from using part of the money before it’s forgiven, with todays FO pay, I would seriously wonder about your decision making in other places.

WTF. Take the money from Franke and smile. He doesn’t give it willingly often…

Three years from now, pay the taxes and use the rest to take your significant other on a nice vacation. Then get hired at mainline and leave.

Originally Posted by fivebyfive (Post 3577063)

The loan goes into the F9 books as an asset. It goes on the new hires credit score as a liability and affects their debt to income ratio. I know you realize the importance of credit and DTI when applying for things such as a home or car loan and interest rate. $52,000 over 36mo is looked upon as $1,400 per month outgoing debt when calculating DTI. Not to mention, you sign away the possibility of taking FMLA or a short term LOA of any kind without paying back the loan with interest.

Originally Posted by dracir1 (Post 3577083)

Didnt know it was considered an actual loan from credit reporting purposes…where is that written?

smh - what kind of company loans it’s employees a bonus?

Originally Posted by fivebyfive (Post 3577063)

The loan goes into the F9 books as an asset. It goes on the new hires credit score as a liability and effects their debt to income ratio. I know you realize the importance of credit and DTI when applying for things such as a home or car loan and interest rate. $52,000 over 36mo is looked upon as $1,400 per month outgoing debt when calculating DTI. Not to mention, you sign away the possibility of taking FMLA or a short term LOA of any kind without paying back the loan with interest.

Originally Posted by dracir1 (Post 3577083)

Didnt know it was considered an actual loan from credit reporting purposes…where is that written?

smh - what kind of company loans it’s employees a bonus?

Originally Posted by dracir1 (Post 3577083)

what kind of company loans it’s employees a bonus?

Originally Posted by Beehan (Post 3577430)

Ofc there are a few that do this, like various regionals' retention bonuses which must be paid back if you don't flow to their major or retire from the regional. The sleazy part about F9's bonus however is that it is not so cleverly designed to be a "pre employment" bonus so it's outside of our contract. I wonder if a judge/arbitrator would see it that way.. a transparent attempt to circumvent our cba. On the other hand, that also makes you wonder WHY this isn't covered by our cba.

Originally Posted by TurboFanMan (Post 3577470)

I’ll be surprised if we win the grievance against the bonus. Don’t hold your breath. 😂

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577421)

Great... knowingly violate the very same CBA you'll be working under from day 1. Hotels for new hires is also a CBA violation as upgrades and commuters pay for their own....it is clear they're both CBA violations and pilots willingly doing it...we are our own worst enemy...yeah welcome to Frontier....🙄

Originally Posted by BufordT Justice (Post 3577555)

This is a poorly constructed, ill-informed, horribly written post, if anyone is wondering.

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577585)

Please elaborate...

Originally Posted by BufordT Justice (Post 3577597)

You’re accusing new hires of “willingly violating” a CBA they don’t even have access to. If you want to be upset, be upset at the company for attempting to skirt the contract, or be upset at the company for not offering hotels to upgrades and commuters. Submitting an emotional rant founded in irrationality and full of errors isn’t helping your cause.

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577600)

They do know...if they've done their research...and sets things up from day one how things work here at FUNtier...

I didn't know we were writing essays here. Thanks for your advice my life is better thanks to you..

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577615)

Listen I'm not going to argue. It's a violation. They both are. Why are you defending it? Didn't someone post the ALPA letter stating as much?

Originally Posted by BufordT Justice (Post 3577620)

This isn’t an argument. You are accusing your coworkers of knowingly and willfully violating a contract they don’t even have access to. Your ire is directed at your fellow pilot, which doesn’t even make sense.

If you think it’s a contract violation and they should be doing their research to avoid it, perhaps you could share with the group where they should be looking to find this information. Instead, you’re here pretending they’re intentionally harming the pilot group and posting your faux outrage for the world to see.

Nothing you have posted has helped anyone.

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577625)

Who said I'm trying to help? They're contract violations. I've seen the ALPA letter posted in various platforms...potential "coworkers" should have seen it too...

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577625)

Who said I'm trying to help? They're contract violations. I've seen the ALPA letter posted in various platforms...potential "coworkers" should have seen it too...

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577421)

Great... knowingly violate the very same CBA you'll be working under from day 1. Hotels for new hires is also a CBA violation as upgrades and commuters pay for their own....it is clear they're both CBA violations and pilots willingly doing it...we are our own worst enemy...yeah welcome to Frontier....🙄

Originally Posted by Mugatu (Post 3577817)

That’s strange, I didn’t pay for hotels when I upgraded. Are you an F9 pilot for just bashing F9 for your own selfish reasons?

Originally Posted by Mugatu (Post 3577817)

That’s strange, I didn’t pay for hotels when I upgraded. Are you an F9 pilot for just bashing F9 for your own selfish reasons?

Originally Posted by b42day (Post 3577822)

If you're not based in DEN or wherever the upgrade training takes place you get a hotel...yeah... Otherwise your SOL. Does this answer your question? I've probably been at F9 a bit longer than you think...know your contract much?

Originally Posted by Shady702 (Post 3577845)

The difference is what the CBA states vs what is happening with hotels. Read the very first paragraph of Section 5.

Originally Posted by Shady702 (Post 3577845)

The difference is what the CBA states vs what is happening with hotels. Read the very first paragraph of Section 5.

Originally Posted by Stayontarget (Post 3572431)

Guess I missed this reference to my previous questions. My point is they could tell 2000 with an email, 500 on this site, or 1 if I send a dart. What do you think will work best?