Hard to have much pride in your brand when the only employees left working for the brand are pilots and FA’s. Outsourced ramp, gate agents, mechs, cleaning, catering owned by another company etc….No actual Frontier employees to handle the ins and outs. And Frontier was such a prolific brand in its day.

Thanks again for sharing the data. Since the union has been tracking but not providing us the attrition information I have also been tracking it on the side. With the numbers you provided you completed the puzzle I was building and can share some of the data.

While attrition is bad I was always curious how bad and where the people were leaving from on the SL…

We have lost 133 new hires out of the 647. 20%. the remaining people lost (177) were greater than 2 years seniority. And since there were those retirements that means we lost 10% of our pre Covid work force in the last two years to attrition.

I can’t say I’m surprised with the way the industry is right now. Just an FYI if anybody cared…

Has anyone that agreed to the pre-hire bonus actually receive it?

Actually pretty nice to know. I do know probably 75% of my class came here with no intentions of staying and only using it to get to a legacy or out of their regional. It is a shame, but thats what we (and all LCCs) are right now, there is a lot of movement everywhere and even pilots with 5 years at Delta are leaving for UPS and Fedex.

I don’t think anyone received the bonus. At least not for the 11/28 class. Either there was so much blowback they ditched the idea or maybe it will be offered to other classes down the road.

Eh. Don’t worry. None of the existing pilots received their last paycheck on time either.

They are still waiting to get paid? Pay your existing employees before bonuses

Didn’t say that. Said it wasn’t on time. As far as I know, everyone has been paid.

Don't be dramatic, money was on the bank before ends day on the 20th

Pay was delayed by a matter of hours due to a software glitch. Just as it has happened to other large companies on occasion. 95% of pilots I know chuckled about it and moved on. Only a select small group of our most “special” pilots lost their minds.

Stating facts is drama. Got it. The original comment was meant to be a bit tongue in cheek.

I don’t believe it’s “a software glitch”. I think it’s a function of the output of the payroll department doesn’t meet the requirements of the banking system.

I got a call from accounting literally the day before thanksgiving, asking to verify the account info I submitted a week earlier. They made a big deal about submitting it by the 16th to be eligible for “pre-employment,” so I was surprised it took them so long to get to the verification step. My regional wasted no time paying my last check and all my PTO.

Isn’t the bonus payable on day 1?

No idea. When I called the day they emailed us, they didn’t know anything any kept saying it was rushed (for us in the 11/28 class) so that it “could be paid as a pre-employment bonus”.

The pre-employment ship has sailed.

I remember the literature saying somewhere “prior to your first day” or something along the lines of prior to employment.

So at this point, for the sake of philosophical debate, could one turn down the bonus now? Or leave prior to the 3 year mark and argue it wasn’t paid out in the pre employment time frame? I’m sure the latter is moot, good lawyers will have written that out of a contract.

Getting the payout AFTER you start has very little effect on you. You will likely still be held accountable if you leave. The problem would be that they would then be paying “employed” first year pilots outside of the CBA. The “pre-employment bonus” has everything to do with circumventing the CBA and current seniority list pilots, not whether or not they could hold you to the contract. Failing to meet the pre-employment timeframe will only have blowback on the company. Not you.

I’m not planning on leaving, also not touching it for at least 3 years just to be safe.

That’s a smart choice. You never know what opportunities your future may hold.

Just to be clear, my post wasn’t meant in any way to be negative towards you. I was just explaining why the company would be in such a hurry to get the bonus done pre-employment.

Welcome to Frontier, and I hope it will be everything that you hope it will be. This place isn’t without its warts and scars, but it’s nowhere near as bad as some on here make it out to be. Come develop your own opinion. Don’t let your attitude be influenced by what others say.

excellent choice…..

i declined the bonus for this very reason. The $35K is now in violation of the CBA. So it’s unlikely we will get it. Now I’m free of the three year lock.

Hotels for new hires is also a violation but that hasn’t stopped the company.

New hires are supposed to pay for their own hotel rooms according to the CBA??

According to past precedence and the CBA new hires are based in Denver initially, and, pilots in training in domicile are not afforded hotels. Doesn’t say they can’t, but the company is choosing to not give pilots in training in their domicile a hotel unless that pilot is a new hire.

prolific brand….huh? Maybe if you lived in Denver. Outside of Denver no one really knew who frontier was.

Just cause you didn’t get it doesn’t mean no one else is entitled to it. Get over yourself or leave if you’re that disgruntled over it. It’s not violating the contract, it’s a signing bonus through the company. Not the union or contract. All the regionals do it.

it’s good to see the whole industry get increased pay. “Whoa is me”, get over yourself

Also, it’s 35K to basically buy out all the WO captains locked into their 30K bonuses they have to pay back. Now it’s a wash for them to leave and go F9

Incorrect. If it was a bonus, new hires would not be taking a hit on their credit report and it adversely effecting their debt to income ratio. Do some research. It is a loan that new hires work off over the term of 3 years while under the F9 CBA.

I hope you’re better at flying than reading comprehension.

Fellow pilots,
Recently, the company introduced its latest scheme to attract pilots and slow attrition at Frontier by offering $35,000 “signing bonuses” attached to a three-year employment commitment. ALPA opposes this ploy, as we believe that our airline’s inability to attract and retain pilots stems from a larger cultural problem that can only be addressed by an overhaul of management’s approach to labor relations. However, we feel it appropriate to leave the systemic problems aside for the moment and address just the bonus program.
First, pilots should be made aware of how the program was launched. Based on the rollout we are not certain management considered U.S. tax law when designing the program, which requires that participants sign a $35,000 promissory note. In fact, the first eligible new hires were still in ground school when the company demanded that they sign amended documents changing the terms of the agreement. Pilots were informed that they would now be charged interest on their “bonus” at a rate of 4.1%. In addition, each new hire pilot who accepts the funds will be charged income taxes on the $35,000 once their three-year commitment is complete and the promissory note is forgiven. Finally, any pilot who accepts this money and does not fulfill their obligation will not benefit from any proration of amount owed to the company.
More relevant to our current pilot group, the bonus program clearly violates Section 3.R of the CBA by offering a bonus to new hires, excluding all other Frontier pilots on the seniority list. Section 3.R. provides that, “Pilots of Frontier Airlines, Inc. shall participate in any Discretionary Bonus Program on the same terms and conditions of other non-management employees.” The unambiguous intent of this provision is for all pilots to be included in all bonus offerings that are provided to any employees of Frontier. The seemingly clever approach of giving a bonus in this way is merely an attempt to end-run around our CBA.

Furthermore, the bonus program violates the contract by circumventing LOA 4. This LOA, negotiated between Frontier and ALPA in 2019, allows the company to raise first-year hourly rates to 98.5% of second-year hourly rates. The intent of LOA 4 was to give the company the ability to attract pilots with increased pay in a manner that complies with the CBA. However, instead of utilizing the contractual mechanism already available to them within LOA 4, they chose to proceed in a manner that is not contractually compliant. Notably, the company has chosen not to raise new hire pay to the levels agreed to by ALPA under the LOA.
Frontier pilots flying the line are the backbone of this company, and the safe, efficient, and profitable operation of this airline falls squarely upon our shoulders. Management’s choice to flout our contract and dangle a one-time cash payment to entice new pilots while ignoring those already wearing a Frontier uniform is short-sighted and will do nothing to improve retention in this historic job market.
ALPA has filed an Association grievance challenging the bonus program. We continue to object to management’s attempts to gut the protections afforded by our CBA and will keep the pilot group updated as the process unfolds. As always, your continued professionalism will allow this pilot group to rise above. If you have any questions, please contact your elected representatives or send us a DART.
In unity,
FFT MEC

Help me understand here…at least for the first class there is a clear and obvious violation since they were already employees. So we file a grievance and then what? What’s the timeline here?

Say we win that grievance then what? Does everybody get a 35k check or do the newbies who got the check get that removed?

We have so many grievances and more are piling on quickly yet we aren’t seeing any results, that I know of. Forgive me since I have never had a union before but the whole idea of a Union and a CBA is seeming questionable right now. Personally I feel we should already be in court suing the company for harassment regarding the sick calls but again this is my first union and the overall process is still somewhat of a mystery to me.

I was expecting to see lawsuit as well. At what point does the union get serious?

The Union is us.

the union is bound by the Railway Labor Act and under the Act, this is classified as a minor dispute and therefore subject to the grievance/arbitration process. If the union were to file a lawsuit, it would get dismissed at the first hearing. The union has in house counsel that advises them on issues like this. We probably ought to leave the lawyering up to them.

Sounds like there will be more than one grievance. Separate arguments with several possible outcomes as thier argued through the process.

Best we can hope for is this goes to arbitration in 9 months and they tell Frontier they can't keep giving them out.

The RLA is designed to keep the railroad chugging

Or they have to offer them to the entire list. 3.R. But yes your last statement is definitely true.

If we wanted real change, we would try to get out from under the RLA. There is a less than zero percent chance of that happening. But, it should, we aren't running 1800s steam powered choo choos here.

I asked essentially the same thing: With so many unaddressed grievances, is the union effectively representing the pilot group? My account ended up getting moderated. Seemed like a fair question.

The fact the grievances are unaddressed is not the unions fault! They’ve been filed and the company is refusing to settle them and forcing them to arbitration. We have a limited number of arbitrations we can do in a year. Some of you guys really need to do some research on the RLA and our CBA to get educated on the process. Let’s focus our frustration in the right direction.